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'Ireland were not crap' Revisionism
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TOPIC: 'Ireland were not crap' Revisionism

posted 02-07-2012 11:00
Keane's inter-personal skills are probably not good enough to be a successful manager at any decent level. He doesn't seem to have any concept of frequency-dependency as a phenomenon. Eventually the invariant 'angry bastard' persona/stance will become so much 'white noise'.

But I've enjoyed him as a pundit – at least he has a bit of liveliness - unlike the ranks of the living brain-dead.
posted 02-07-2012 11:14
Keane would be a disaster of a manager.

If you look at the managers who have been very successful over a period of time, most of them are essentially master psychologists. Ferguson, wenger, mourinho, and without going through a long list I'll just say Trap and leave it there. These are all highly intelligent, driven, capable people, who would have been an enormous success in virtually any other walk of life.

These people are master manipulators. (not necessarily in a bad way) They understand how to get a player to do what they want to do. They can put themselves in that players position, and say the right thing to him.

Keane simply doesn't seem to put himself in the other person's position. For all of his other attributes, he has a near total lack of empathy, and that is an insurmountable obstacle for any would be manager.

Sheer undiluted, terrifying rage is a powerful tool in any manager's arsenal, however it is only one interpersonal approach, and one that should be used sparingly. It is also one that should only be used entirely cold, i.e. the manager has to be entirely in control when using it, otherwise it can become seriously counter productive. I don't think that roy is always in control of his anger.

That and he's not much of a coach, or a judge of player, or a tactician. I think he should stick with the TV punditry. We need a resource maximizing manager. Someone who will scour the english leagues, watching every irish qualified player. Get them all on board, and organize the team in an effective way. Roy keane is not the answer. I wouldn't mind giving kerr another go. There's no-one left from his last time in charge, and the available squad is filled with impressionable players who are just dying to play for ireland.
  • Duncan Gardner
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posted 02-07-2012 11:24
The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:
We need a resource maximizing manager. Someone who will scour the english leagues, watching every irish qualified player. Get them all on board, and organize the team in an effective way


Wouldn't you be better scouring the German/ Portuguese/ Spanish/ Italian leagues for the next Barry O'Mhaolatelli?

the available squad is filled with impressionable players who are just dying to play for ireland


Allegedly Messrs McClean and Gibson aren't. Although only in the Belly Laugh, so no need to get too worried.

It seems they weren't too pleased at being ignored for a month by a master manipulator who can't actually speak their language. No gags please.
Last Edit: 02-07-2012 11:26:54 by Duncan Gardner.
posted 02-07-2012 12:39
James mcClean wants to play for Ireland more than just about anyone on earth, other than perhaps james mcCarthy. He's just raging at the way he was treated by Trap, and he's far from the only one.

There was a press conference after the Croatia game, and it was trap and mcClean, and when trap was asked why he didn't bring on mcClean and he said that you can't expect mcClean to change a game at this level. It was an incredibly crass thing to say, particularly when the player was sitting beside him.

After the tournament he was asked how he felt it went, and he said "A shambles, and you can quote me on that." I see he has nell mcCafferty's approach to tact.
posted 02-07-2012 12:51
That comment about the inadequacy of a player sitting next to him in a press conference and Trap's whole approach doesn't suggest a 'master psychologist' at work. Perhaps Trap is only doing the job as a payday or it's a language thing, but whatever Trap didn't take or pick all of the best players, was too dogmatic in his tactics and formation and so on.

Not that Ireland could have done much better overall, but they might not have been quite so embarrassingly abysmal. So Trap's performance at these finals leaves a lot to be desired.

And even the pitiful Scotland national team might have got a positive result against Estonia in a play-off!
  • Bryaniek
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posted 02-07-2012 13:01
Kerr is a good tactician and possibly knows more about Irish football than anyone alive. On top of that, being manager of Ireland is like his ultimate dream job. He'd probably do it for free if you asked him. I just don't know if he has the motivational skills to manage Premier League footballers. If there is one job that is suited to Brian Kerr it is John Delaney's job. Brian Kerr should be in charge of Irish football.

Trap brining on Paul Green ahead of Gibson against Spain was a total fuck up. His management of new players has been rubbish. His don't change a losing team philosophy is totally mind boggling.
  • Jongudmund
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posted 02-07-2012 13:13
Simple answer is - they played badly against some good teams.

The results speak for themselves.
posted 02-07-2012 17:48
There was a press conference after the Croatia game, and it was trap and mcClean, and when trap was asked why he didn't bring on mcClean and he said that you can't expect mcClean to change a game at this level. It was an incredibly crass thing to say, particularly when the player was sitting beside him.


? this isn't true. mcclean never did a press conference with trap. trap said that at his tuesday press conference after the croatia game. it was just him and manuela up top, as usual.

i'd happily have roy keane as ireland manager. trap doesn't actually do much at all, so keane i think could only be worse if he actively destroyed parts of the squad - forcing players into exile etc. which there's a good chance he might do i suppose. but trap's kind of doing that anyway. having keano in charge would at least be entertaining, and frankly we can't expect much more from the irish team.

as for delaney, i'd have quinn in that job.
  • Bryaniek
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posted 02-07-2012 19:08
Kharkivorous Vulgaris wrote:


Yes, that's a disgusting quote. I am not arguing that Keane is a nice guy. I would hate to have him as a colleague. But we're talking about football management. Keane didn't get where he is by being a nice person. He got there by being a driven bastard. And there is a high correlation between being a driven bastard and being a good football manager. Ferugson, Mourinho, Clough, Capello, Van Gaal... none of these guys are particularly likeable. In fact, they are all dicks who studied at the Stockholm Syndrome School of Football Management.

That quote about the heart attack is completely tasteless. And it's exactly the kind of thing you'd hear from Brian Clough.

Keane would be a calamitous choice for Ireland manager. Ferguson, Clough and Shankly all knew or know of the value of praising players, not just driving them to their mental and physical limits as if they'd signed up for the armed forces.


As a young manager, Ferguson ripped the shit out of his players just after they won the SFA Cup. And how do you know that Keane doesn't praise his players?
Last Edit: 02-07-2012 19:09:34 by Bryaniek.
  • Bryaniek
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posted 02-07-2012 19:12
garcia wrote:
as for delaney, i'd have quinn in that job.


Would he be good at developing League of Ireland football though? His adventures with Sunderland suggest that his interests lie elsewhere. Kerr would develop a brilliant underage structure in tandem with the LOI clubs.
posted 02-07-2012 20:36
As a young manager, Ferguson ripped the shit out of his players just after they won the SFA Cup. And how do you know that Keane doesn't praise his players?

Ferguson describes that as the biggest mistake of his career.
  • Bryaniek
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posted 19-07-2012 18:46
Vomit bags at the ready, today's Irish Times:

THE MAYOR of the Polish city Poznan visited Dublin yesterday to thank Irish fans for making such a good impression there during the Euro 2012 soccer tournament.

Ryszard Grobelny said he hoped the behaviour of the Irish fans during the European Championship would mark the start and not the end of a beautiful friendship between Ireland and Poznan.

President Michael D Higgins, who visited Poznan for Ireland’s first match of the tournament, against Croatia, received Mr Grobelny at Áras an Uachtaráin.

The mayor then went to the Mansion House, where he was presented with a painting depicting scenes from The Fields of Athenry, which Irish fans sang in lament and celebration at the end of Ireland’s match against Spain, which the tournament’s eventual winners won 4-0.
  • AB2
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posted 19-07-2012 18:59
What's your point?
  • Calvert
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posted 19-07-2012 20:49
The mayor then went to the Mansion House, where he was presented with a painting depicting scenes from The Fields of Athenry


As if that's not bad enough...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18895671

Why all this sudden cruelty to the Poles?
Last Edit: 19-07-2012 20:52:08 by Calvert.
posted 19-07-2012 21:18
Bryaniek wrote:
Vomit bags at the ready, today's Irish Times:

THE MAYOR of the Polish city Poznan visited Dublin yesterday to thank Irish fans for making such a good impression there during the Euro 2012 soccer tournament.

Ryszard Grobelny said he hoped the behaviour of the Irish fans during the European Championship would mark the start and not the end of a beautiful friendship between Ireland and Poznan.

President Michael D Higgins, who visited Poznan for Ireland’s first match of the tournament, against Croatia, received Mr Grobelny at Áras an Uachtaráin.

The mayor then went to the Mansion House, where he was presented with a painting depicting scenes from The Fields of Athenry, which Irish fans sang in lament and celebration at the end of Ireland’s match against Spain, which the tournament’s eventual winners won 4-0.


Well, if you were getting 30 straight days of publicity from another country's national broadcaster, I suspect you'd be grateful too.
  • Wyatt Earp
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posted 19-07-2012 23:06
Evan Evian wrote:
He doesn't seem to have any concept of frequency-dependency as a phenomenon.


Eh?
posted 28-07-2012 12:48
I presume our Caledonian comrade meant that the players would tune out Keane's rants over time.
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