They made space very well; there was nobody to attack it most of the time. That's why I'd want to see Navas and Llorente, a proper winger to keep them from getting too narrow and a forward to take advantage of the various openings as well as being a threat on crosses and set pieces. I get why Del Bosque does what he does though, if you're Klitschko and you can win with only your jab, why bother taking any risks by mixing it up?

dalliance wrote:


What?
That exact reason is why Italy are disliked on here. Have you seen the thread with who people would like to win, have you seen who is bottom?
Not only this year, but two years ago, and the one tournament two years ahead of that, and two years before that? It's always Italy here on OTF. Because they play like Spain played today. The difference being that that's how Italy have always played. Spain are made into being like some sort of Brazil 1982 side but one which wins. They're not. They're boring as fuck.
They're like Zico, Socrates, Eder and Falcao would have been forced to play like Brazil did in 1994. One of the most dislike sides, in Brazil, even though they did win.

jasoñ voorhees wrote:


jason. Spain, how they play, it is without out doubt supreme. OK?
Don't get me wrong on that one.
In now way am I saying that they play a tactical flawed or in any way bad football.
It is fantastic in how they win.
But it's so god damn booooooooring.

Is it not possible that the journalist in question is the cunt rather than Nasri.

Journalists are probably one of the few professions with a higher proportion of cunts than professional footballers.

There's priors between him and the press anyhow -- supposedly the "shhhhh" goal celebration against England was meant for the press corps.

Super Scotty Parker wrote:


According to reports here, the journalist simply asked him about his feelings on the game.

szczeweeeeeeeee wrote:


Wasn't Nasri in trouble already after the game against Sweden, behaving like a spoilt brat?

The Quarter Finals have been on a horrid loop though haven"t they. Three poor teams with next to no attacking clue against three good teams who have made very heavy weather of dispatching them.

What's the betting we get a full set? I've just been away ifor a week, and only saw the england ukraine game, but You make it sound like I didn't miss much. I was in france and I met four people who when the topic of football came up, immediately apologized for Thierry Henry, and I apologized for Ireland at euro 2012, and we all hugged, but they didn't really want to talk about France at all, but instead wanted to talk about montpellier and eric cantona instead. I gather that the national team may not be a particularly big deal in France at the moment. These guys were very knowledgeable football fans in a rugby area, If they can't give a fuck then the national team is in quite a bit of trouble.

Oh and the match didn't look too bad in the highlights tonight, but I gather from looking at this thread that the problem might have been the bits in between.

having impressed on her the importance of these fixtures i have watched football with my wife on two successive nights for the first time ever in our 15 years together. after tonight i will never be able to persuade her to watch another football match.

at some point in the second half i sensed her boredom was approaching crisis point.

"this is a bit dull" i admitted.

"it's fucking stultifying."

"really, it's not usually like this" i pleaded.

"yes it is, i remember you made me watch that barcelona game last year."

"well, yes, but a lot of those barcelona players play in this team too."

"i fucking hate them."

i'm really not enjoying this spain team any more. they're like the fucking borg. everything is so controlled. the system has taken over. no individuality, no risk-taking, no surprises, just this kind of... inhuman perfection. it's totalitarian.

you couldn't complain if they were running in a lot of goals, but instead they're using their technical superiority to nullify the game. this might be the football of the gods, but remember the gods are immortal, the rest of us are going to fucking die one day so stop wasting our time pipping the ball to each other and try to score some fucking goals!

the team spain most remind me of is stoke city, who are also an ideological project. stoke and spain are the two teams i can think of that do not play to score goals. stoke play to win set pieces. spain play to keep the ball. i'd like to stuff the ball up their hole.

please ronaldo, please show us that one man can still make a difference in this game.

garcia, watching Spain play is like watching two play this



It's the most boring shit ever invented, let alone watch someone else flip the bullshit pieces.

Here's the question then: When Spain won in 2008 people were in heaven (esp. given the antithesis to Greece in 2004). Similarly, everyone has been raving about Barca for the past 3-4 years. So what happened to Spain between 2008 and now? Why are they now Greece with the ball vs. revolutionary? Is it that folks want a change or is there some difference in their play compared to 2008?

I was one who posted in one of the WC 2010 threads that they were a snore in 2010 and the Spain defenders said that the problem was always the fault of the opponents who park the bus, but I no longer believe that. If the bus is parked, shoot more to draw the defenders out, but Spain don't seem to want to shoot.

I find Spain a joy to watch, but I think at this tournament their possesion play has not been quite up to their high standards. In particular in the match against Croatia they attacked and lost the ball on several occasions when they normally would have been more patient. I loved that moment when Spain were in a 5 v 3 situation yesterday and Silva played a square pass, allowing the French defence to get back. There was an air of arrogance about it (we're going to score anyway) that reminded me of Muhammed Ali.

I live in a country where for decades people have been preaching that you should get up and down the field as quickly as possible, that dribling or passing the ball around midfield is "Brotlose Kunst (Breadless Art)". And suddenly a team come along that seem to be more interested in passing the ball than shooting at goal. I love it. And if it bores off all the people who aren't really interested in football, but turn up every two years to wave their flags, that's all the better.

The thing is, as the attitude to Spain from some on here shows, it also bores certain people who watch football all year every year.

I have no problem with a team playing possession football. It's the kind of football we all like to see. But with Spain it has become an obsessive compulsion that gets in the way of actual football. It's no longer possession football. It's just possession. They don't play a striker despite having good strikers. They could score more goals, but they'd have to sacrifice a little bit of possession. But last I checked football matches were decided by goals and not by possession statistics. This France team was there for the taking. Sweden are no great shakes yet created many more goal scoring chances against France than world champions Spain did. But to Spain scoring goals is a waste of possession. If you shoot and miss, the other team gets the ball as a goal kick. If you shoot and score, the other team gets the ball from the kick-off. So to Spain trying to score a goal is a lose-lose situation.

And then there's the other bullshit. Instead of defending they've taken to diving around in their own penalty area to win free kicks. And last night they needed a dive to get a penalty kick to finish the match off. If they're so good and can win matches at will, then why do they need to cheat all the time? And even their cheating is boring. Other teams cheat in an ad hoc or villainous way that adds to the entertainment factor of the match. With Spain the cheating is all so systematic, like they've used a computer algorithm to derive the most efficient cheating methods that don't result in negative consequences for themselves.

I hope Portugal win the whole thing. They actually look like they are enjoying themselves.

Spain went into 2008 as, well, Spain - plenty of good players but everyone knowing they would buckle mentally as they always do. So teams did not afford them the same fawning respect, approaches against them were almost positive at times.

So for once Spain proved everyone wrong, great players with a great system and a newfound resoluteness. They then went on to dispatch all comers with ease and run up a ridiculously good competitive record.

So what changed was not Spain but everyone else. They realised they could not outplay them, so they defend in depth and hope they get something on the break or from a set piece. So it is not really Spain's fault that every match they play becomes a war of attrition, that's what happens when you have been a team with their reputation.

And Portugal will be the next side to do the same thing.

.

You make it sound as if it is a simple equation, but it's not. There is absolutely no guarantee that sacrificing possession would bring them more goals.

.

Umm, this is the current European and world champions who are two matches away from becoming the first European side to win three successive tournament. So while we know they do well at possession, they must be doing pretty well at the scoring more goals than their opponents thing or they wouldn't be where they are.

You make it sound as if it is a simple equation, but it's not. There is absolutely no guarantee that sacrificing possession would bring them more goals.

there is an interesting article by michael cox (which I can't find for some reason) about how when you are attacking you can either control possession, or position, but not both. most teams look for a compromise and try and use possession to force good positions, but spain don't do that.

Spain allow their opponents to focus entirely on maintaining their position, and this makes it difficult for them to break down even fairly unimpressive opposition. If you pick a centre forward, you run the risk of losing possession, but it destabilizes the opposition, and makes it difficult for them to maintain their position. Basically a centre forward moves the centre halves around.

So what changed was not Spain but everyone else. They realised they could not outplay them, so they defend in depth and hope they get something on the break or from a set piece.

I seem to recall spain playing with two strikers in 2008. now they play with none. I think it's fair to say that spain have also changed.

There seems to be an idea that Spain are playing within themselves and are happy to close out games 1-0, but I wonder if their reputation is making people think that this current team is better than it is. They only had 55% possession last night which is a very low number for Spain and there are one or two players like Xavi who aren't playing up to their usual high standards. Both Croatia and Italy gave Spain a fright and I think Portugal can beat them (well I hope so anyway).

I don't think Spain plan to play no striker for the full 90 minutes. The strategy is to use Torres, Navas et al when the opposition is tired and more stretched. Spain would have beaten Italy with that strategy had this been 2008 Torres not 2012 Torres.

What I can't understand is the refusal to give Llorente even 10 minutes to see if there is another way that Spain could play.

Finally, excellent analysis beyond "I HATE DEM DEY SO BOOOOORIN".

If there's one thing everyone here must agree on, however, is that Zinedine Zidane must be the greatest player of all time to take those knuckleheads to as many finals and trophies that he did. France is permanently a Zidane away.

Speaking of which, the French GQ featured Zidane on its cover. Was there anything of interest in the article ?