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TOPIC: Senna, then

#64956

Duncan Gardner
All just prisoners here, of our own device
Posts: 6772

posted 14-07-2008 14:38

Your position on the entire issue has been open to contradictory readings because you havent always made it clear that you believe in players having a choice, hence the comments from others above

I made it clear early and I haven't contradicted it since, as far as I can see.

Would people think differently of Ballotelli had he been born in Accra and moved to Sicily as a baby? Anyway, I look forward to him marking McGeady in the WC qualifiers.

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#64961

ursus arctos Posts: 26639	posted 14-07-2008 14:42 Balotelli is a striker, Dunc. I certainly wouldn't think of him any differently if he had been born in Accra, but imagine that the fact that he was born here (and then given up for adoption as an infant) makes a difference to some people.
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#64994

Harry Truscott Posts: 15744	posted 14-07-2008 15:08 Duncan Gardner wrote: I made it clear early and I haven't contradicted it since, as far as I can see. I think we may have a screen name recognition problem then. I thought you were the poster currently listed as "We built this Villiers" (as you've both used multiple pseudonyms through this discussion) but checking back it appears not. Apologies.
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#64999

Duncan Gardner All just prisoners here, of our own device Posts: 6772	posted 14-07-2008 15:11 Never mind the apology, quote your evidence Harri?
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#65004

Harry Truscott
Posts: 15744

posted 14-07-2008 15:18

Are you "Villiers" then? I wasn't being sarcastic.

The comments (currently) under that name like ;

No international football if you haven't played schools and youth

The main criterion for choosing where to play international football should be where the player grows up and attends school. Not where his parents did, or other accident of birth.

(regarding the grandparent rule) As I've said I'd abolish it.

seem pretty strongly anti-choice to my mind.

So, that was your seeming intial position though one which you have clarified since (actually, Ursus felt the need to sum up your position and he did so quite effectively with "their having a choice, but he himself having a preference as to how they exercise that choice").

Last Edit: 14-07-2008 15:33:50 by Harry Truscott.

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#65026

Duncan Gardner
All just prisoners here, of our own device
Posts: 6772

posted 14-07-2008 15:41

Harri- yes, I made all those comments under two user names.

No international football if you haven't played schools and youth

and

The main criterion for choosing where to play international football should be where the player grows up and attends school. Not where his parents did, or other accident of birth

came (both on page 6 above) before I said (page 7) that Giggs specifically (and by association other cases established by residence) should have had the choice to play for England. That should have ended any ambiguity, as I'm fairly sure I haven't contradicted it since.

(regarding the grandparent rule) As I've said I'd abolish it

It doesn't contradict the Giggs example- it doesn't restrict choice unfairly in my opinion or in that many examples in practice as far as I can see. You have to have an arbitrary line somewhere. In that sense, anyone arguing against a great-granny rule would be restricting choice to some extent.

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#65039

Harry Truscott
Posts: 15744

posted 14-07-2008 15:57

Duncan Gardner wrote:

Harri- yes, I made all those comments under two user names.

No international football if you haven't played schools and youth

and

The main criterion for choosing where to play international football should be where the player grows up and attends school. Not where his parents did, or other accident of birth

ER, yes. Which is why I wrote ;

I must admit that I couldn't see that Duncan was suggesting that there should be any choice in his intial pronouncements either. His positions seems much more sensible (even if I don't agree with them) now that he's clarified.

I used "only recently" in a subsequent mail which was erroneous though.

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#65113

Bored of Education
Expand shrimp and crab farming in brackish water
Posts: 16261

posted 14-07-2008 18:53

Would people think differently of Ballotelli had he been born in Accra and moved to Sicily as a baby?

Yes, I would (assuming that I haven't missed something and Accra is a Italian territory or somesuch.

If, however, he was granted citizenship as a baby then it would, obviously, be more acceptable than anyone who has been fast-tracked by a country having already been a professional footballer.

Having said that, these cases are still so rare that I am happy with the current rules as they are with these few cases (which are citizenship issues anyhow) slipping through.

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#68410

Analogue Bubblebath
Posts: 8009

posted 20-07-2008 14:37

Just found a long (but not necessarily complete) list of Brazilians who have played for other countries.

Turns out that neither Amarildo Zela nor Daniel Batista, both mentioned a good few pages ago on this thread, were Brazilians. The former was an actual Albanian and the latter was from the Cape Verde Islands.

Armenia: Marcos Pizzelli (2008-)

Azerbaijan: Leandro Melino (2006-), André Ladaga (2006-), Marcos Ferreira (2007), Ernani Pereira (2006-)

Belgium: Luís Oliveira (1992-1999)

Bosnia Herzegovina: Ricardo Baiano Santos (2004)

Bulgaria: Tiago Silva (2006), Lúcio Wagner (2006-2007)

Chile: Marcos González (2002-2005)

Costa Rica: Alexandre Guimarães (1988-1990)

Croatia: Eduardo da Silva (2004-)

El Salvador: Israel Castro Franco (1996-2000), Nildeson de Mello (1997-2005)

Equatorial Guinea: Ronan Carolino Falcão (2006-)

Germany: Kevin Kurányi (2003-), Paulo Roberto Rink (1998-2000)

Honduras: Denílson Costa (2003-2005)

Hong Kong: Cristiano Cordeiro (2004-)

Hungary: Leandro de Almeida (2004-)

Italy: José Altafini (1961-1962), Dino da Costa (1958), Anfilogino Guarisi (1934), Ángelo Sormani (1962-1963)

Japan: Wagner Lopes (1997-1999), Ruy Ramos (1989-1995), Alex dos Santos (2001-), Marcos Tulio Tanaka (2006-)

Lebanon: Luís Fernandes (2000-2004), Gilberto dos Santos (2000-2004), Marcilio Alves Silva (2000)

Macedonia: Aguinaldo de Jesus Braga (2002-2003)

Mexico: Antônio Naelson (2004-)

Poland: Roger Guerreiro (2008-)

Portugal: Anderson Deco (2003-),

Qatar: Fabio César Montezine (2008-), Márcio Emerson Passos (2008-)

Singapore: Egmar Gonçalves (2002-2007)

Spain: Catanha Guedes (2000), Donato Gama da Silva (1994-1996), Marcos Senna (2006-)

Trinidad & Tobago: José Luís Seabra (2005)

Tunisia: José Clayton (1998-2005), Francileudo dos Santos (2004-)

Turkey: Mehmet Aurélio (2006-)

USA: Alex Ely (1960-1965), Benny Feilhaber (2007-), Carlos Metidieri (1971), Jorge Siega (1973)

Last Edit: 08-08-2008 19:46:43 by Analogue Bubblebath.

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#68436

Duncan Gardner All just prisoners here, of our own device Posts: 6772	posted 20-07-2008 17:07 Interesting list. Essentially, a lot of countries have used a few ringers. (I know Lebanon- say- are likely to have cast their recruitment net even wider than Brazil, but doubt it gained them a huge number of players).
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#68960

AMMS Past caring. Almost. Posts: 2277	posted 21-07-2008 22:53 El Salvador: Israel Castro Franco (1996-2000), Nildeson de Mello (1997-2005) What a name, now thats what I call hedging your bets.
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#68997

Analogue Bubblebath Posts: 8009	posted 21-07-2008 23:59 Ha ha ha ha. I remember years ago at the World Cup there was a Salvadorean referee called Vladimir Fernandez. Imagine living in a place like El Salvador with a first name like Vladimir.
	Last Edit: 21-07-2008 23:59:25 by Analogue Bubblebath. Reply Quote

#69012

Incandenza Posts: 14403	posted 22-07-2008 01:14 Hieronymus of Hesselink wrote: USA: Alex Ely (1960-1965), Benny Feilhaber (2007-), Carlos Metidieri (1971), Jorge Siega (1973) [/quote] Feilhaber was indeed born in Brazil, but he moved to the US when he was 6.
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