- Posts: 4084
Just a minor quibble, and in the light of the Armstrong evidence by no means intended to suggest anything much, but...
how come in none of the coverage of Frankie Dettori's 'drugs ban' have we been told what he was taking?
Today's Guardian says that it is "believed to be cocaine", and I think that I've seen French and Italian stories that were less equivocal.
Brandenburger Toro wrote:
Yes, because my point was that there was a test rather than that you were blindly asserting as fact the unsupported contents of your thalamus.
I don't have time for this, I have stuff to do. Good luck to you.
Toro, if Armstrong went for a solid decade doing test after test and not getting caught, what does that say about the tests and what they look for?
The thing you have to remember about Kimmage is that, as one of those links says, he's a fanatic. The whole sport, and everyone in it, are primarily elements in a passion play about Him, and his Broken Dreams.
That narcissistic obsession has produced stunningly important work, and it makes him a tremendously brave advocate and moral force in the sport. But it also means he can't be taken as remotely objective.
Brandenburger Toro wrote:
Saying that it can't be proved that the Tour wasn't clean in 1999 is like saying you can't prove that God doesn't exist.
Sure, they could have doped themselves up to the eyeballs in the 1998/99 off-season, they could have done testosterone during the 1999 race and not gotten caught, even by today's testing standards. But since nobody has the ultimate proof, anybody that suggests that 1999 was doping business as usual is talking out of their Thalamus. Apparently.
The Top-10 in the 1999 Tour is riddled with riders who were caught before or after 1999 and who have worked with doping doctors. But we must believe that that is just happen-stance. We must believe the good word of these cheats that they were clean in 1999 and that Armstrong was the only one doping. To suggest anything else is ignoring the facts of who did and didn't test positive at that particular time.
Bollocks to that.
No, the reason Armstrong got his titles stripped from 1998 onwards is not because they suddenly found positive tests for every single race for which they stripped him of his titles. No, USADA proved beyond reasonable doubt that he was a serial doper involved in a culture of serial doping. So they decided to strip him of his titles. And that same USADA logic is what I'm using to say that there was cheating going on in the 1999 Tour, a Tour which was filled with known cheats.
Maybe I'm being really thick here, but why would druggie cyclists just suddenly and temporarily stop cheating for the most prestigious and lucrative race in the world, the one that they most want to win?
Good question, that.
I see, so in 1999 the Peloton set what was then the fastest ever average speed in the history of the Tour while riding pan y agua. Impressive.
A shame that Pantani didn't get the message of post-Festina cycling having been cleaned up when was suspended at the Giro in the Spring of 1999 for having too high a hematocrit. Or was the gentlemen's agreement for the Peloton to ride clean only to be applied to the Tour de France?
Have I inadvertently activated the long-awaited "ignore poster" function, and simply can't see who's writing these posts that you're responding to?
No, you're not getting away that easily.
You said the sport cleaned itself up after Festina '98 and that it was Lance taking them for fools at the Tour de France in '99 that opened up the doping arms race again.
But in the Giro in May 1999, a race which happened a couple of months before the Tour de France and which Lance Armstrong didn't even race in, they kicked out the race leader, Marco Pantani, for having too high a red blood cell count. Doesn't seem like he was a very clean rider to me.
Or did this clean peloton you speak of happen sometime after May 1999 and last until Lance took them for fools in July 1999? Shaky ground you are standing on there. But I know you will defend it to the very last.
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