anyway, does anyone know why Unionists are going so mental, just because the butchers apron isn't going to be flown over city hall. There seems to be some fairly serious disturbances over this flag, with the alliance party getting it in the neck
Our cunts and their cunts (in both City Hall and Stormont) are hell-bent on acting the cunt even more than usual. Both sides have stirred up a mob which they can't control.
More later maybe, I'm going to warm up/ get drunk first.
What I wrote on the Irish Politics thread: Keyzer wrote:
I would imagine it's because these particular Unionists are bigoted, knuckle-dragging scum of the earth to whom a flag largely synonymous with subjugation, bloodshed and imperialism is more important than, say, being concerned about their fellow human beings.
Hold on a sec... 'our' cunts? You're claiming affiliation of some sort with these fuckers?
yes, but the alliance party? That's like being driven to violence by the colour beige. I saw a long haired hilary clinton on the telly telling people to give up the violence and stop targeting the alliance party. I Immediately walked over, locked the door onto the balcony, and wrote "You can't fly, it's the drugs" on one hand, and "If it seems weird, it's just the drugs" on the other hand, and waited for it all to end.
Keyser: I grew up there, it should be obvious from the above post alone that I dissociate from violent mob rule. 'Us and themmuns' is a widespread local shorthand, that's all. My politics are socialist/ Green: Calvert of this parish (more an anarchist) uses similar terms.
PS spare us the exaggerated outrage, if you don't mind. In most of Britain and the World beyond, the Union Jack is synonymous with Princess Kate adorning tea-towels.
Berba: if Alliance hadn't kicked the Swish Family Robinson out of Parliament in 2010, I imagine this wouldn't have kicked off so badly. (Of couse you'll remember that the loss happened mainly as he had both hands in the till while she was having it off with a grandson-aged toyboy).
PS Hillary's new hairdo reminds me of Esther Rantzen.
hmm, you have a tendency to see such things as more innocuous than the really are. Surely the madness of the reaction of so many unionists to the removal of the union jack just proves his point. There's a lot of people on both sides that associate it with protestant supremacy, and it seems to be more keenly felt by unionists.
hmm, you have a tendency to see such things as more innocuous than the really are
Er, hardly here, since I'm agreeing the situation is the opposite of innocuous. I'm merely chiding Keyzer for introducing exaggerated/ irrelevant cliche. The issue is my old neighbors and colleagues getting their homes torched now, not what Cromwell or the Black and Tans did centuries ago.
It's 90% mindless aggro, but 10% is arguably a loyalist sense of alienation that neither Unionist party is defending working-class Protestant communities, while their republican counterparts are reaping the SF rewards, so the issue just proved a convenient catalyst to express pent-up angst.
I might be appearing naive here, but if less significance was attached to the Union Jack by Republicans, then maybe it would undermine the symbolism it currently has with the idiots amongst the Unionists.
I mean, Keyser's interpretation, for example:
a flag largely synonymous with subjugation, bloodshed and imperialism
If that is the reaction it generates then it's no wonder some Unionist knobheads like it waving above City hall and marching up and down streets wafting it about to all and sundry.
Like Dunc says, it's a novelty tea-towel. It's Austin Powers' car, it's Ginger Spice's tarty dress. It's become a cheap and tacky brand in most of the World. Treat it as such.
So, is the possibility of Scottish independence a thing in Northern Ireland? Just it makes me think that it's the big undiscussed question in the conversation here, but could mean that the whole current settlement, such as it is, could unravel.
It's 90% mindless aggro, but 10% is arguably a loyalist sense of alienation that neither Unionist party is defending working-class Protestant communities, while their republican counterparts are reaping the SF rewards, so the issue just proved a convenient catalyst to express pent-up angst
Maybe. Of course they could vote for local councillors who do try to provide practical help to their communities. Like Greens, Socialists and er, Alliance.
You're right that 'Themmuns get everything' (NI's version of zero-sum game politics) is widely perceived. But there's plenty of social deprivation and the rest in Nationalist areas. Sean of the Shed wrote:
I might be appearing naive here, but if less significance was attached to the Union Jack by Republicans, then maybe it would undermine the symbolism it currently has with the idiots amongst the Unionists
Again, maybe. The broad problem is that single-issue cock/ flag-waving parties get 85-90% of the vote in every NI election, while the three main British parties either ignore it, or (in Labour's case) actually prevent local activists standing on the party's ticket. sw2boropetrovsk wrote:
So, is the possibility of Scottish independence a thing in Northern Ireland? Just it makes me think that it's the big undiscussed question in the conversation here, but could mean that the whole current settlement, such as it is, could unravel
Not that big an issue, I think. NI's particular volatility means independence isn't a realistic possibility, while the Republic's politicians and wider public opinion have long made it obvious that their priority is protesting discrimination or intimidation against Nationalists, not reuniting with them. Three of the biggest four Southern parties (FG, FF and Labour) have never stood in any NI election.
PS a brief explanation of the Gulliver's Travels reference. Swift lived in Belfast while employed as a clergyman nearby. His cottage stood where Lilliput Street (beside B126/ Limestone Road junction on detailed map below). Local Crusaders FC narrowly avoided becoming the Lilliputians when founded in 1898. The name is now shared by an industrial laundry firm.
That's not quite the angle I was coming from, DG. I have no doubt the Irish Government isn't interested in revanchism and Northern Ireland politicians would hardly be interested in losing their personal gains either.
Not even the slightly fanciful idea that Northern Ireland is part of Scotland, so should unify with a box fresh Scottish state.
It's more the English I'm thinking of. There's plenty in the country who would be happy to see the Scots go, and plenty who are full of bravado about it or who who would like the Union to continue, but are likely to say "fine, well I never fancied you anyway you ugly lesbian, you".
In that new situation, I'd guess it becomes a lot more likely that the English (who knows about the Welsh, and this could be after Wales has moved a step or two towards independence anyway), and rabble rousers in their papers, ask just what the fucking point of Northern Ireland in a rump UK is anyway?