[/split sides]

Yes, there were so many websites in the early 80s. And I only know anyone who was famous in the early 80s.[/Fuck off] Do you have to intrude, have a dig and sour the atmosphere even when I'm posting helpful things about web design for someone who's asked for help? Does anyone else get these gratuitous sarcastic digs all the fucking time?

I did courses at lynda's Ojai centre and went to Flashforward in SF in 2000-2001. Still think lynda.com is the best resource for learning this sort of thing (through annual subscription, don't think Ojai is still going).

My question was pretty tame, certainly in comparison with some of the shit you've pulled.

And don't ever send me abusive PMs again.

that "abusive" PM in full.
__________
Original message from MsD to G-Man (27 October 2012, 11:33):

I don't like you and you don't like me, please fuck off and let me interact with the people on here that I do get on with and who do like me.

I don't follow you round the board making sarcastic comments. For someone who purports to be "busy" you seem to have much time on your hands.

(Copy of a message you sent to G-Man)

G-Man wrote:


Your "question" was clearly a dig, inless you're saying you really think there were websites in the early 80s.

As for "shit I've pulled" when have I ever made a dig at someone who wasn't having a go at me?

As for "abusive", don't be ridiculous. See above. I was just trying to ask you privately to back the fuck off, without causing more unpleasantness in public.

Robust debate is fair, but the stuff you've pulled -- and you know exactly what I mean -- went far beyond that. It should have seen you banned from here. I'm still bemused that you're still allowed to post here, to be honest.

And, yes, don't send me abusive PMs again.

I assume the lynda thing was just an obscure pop culture reference from G-Man (one that I'm unfamiliar with)... don't see the big deal really. I don't think he was having a go at all.

No, it was a pisstake. Quite a mild one, but then I think you can only really get way with pisstakes of any kind when there's a basically good relationship there, which there isn't here.

And, see, I completely get why people got very cross with MsD over a couple of things, but I don't get why they feel the need to drag it all up at regular intervals on totally unrelated threads.

G-Man wrote:


"stuff I've pulled". Explain? Is it as bad as that terribly abusive PM, diddums? I suspect the real reason for your antipathy is that I'm unimpressed by you and your "hobby", and said so.

Ps: Maybe you should be banned for posting download links to music without permission. It's up to admin to ban people, and don't tell me I've posted anything that violates the terms of the board more than many other posters here.

Bryaniek wrote:

I assumed that being an early adopter, you'd be familiar with Lynda.com and those late 90s "stars" like Brendan Dawes.* Then again, I often assume things are fairly mainstream when they're not.

* and would share a giggle about the time ««When Web Design Was Way Cool»».

I don't even understand how it was a piss-take. I'm totally lost.

You're so not missing anything.

Back on topic, I'm struggling to express just how right Stumpy is on this thread. Everyone who is giving you DIY advice is seriously doing you a disservice. 

What I'm about to delve into is pretty intense so apologies if it fucks your shit up, but it is intended to be solid, professional advice that if considered in the spirit it's intended will arm you with the knowledge required to make an informed decision about your business. 

If you're at all serious about this as a money-making venture, you should begin with a business plan (you may have one already). It needn't be too hardcore, but it should endeavour to uncover potential revenue/profit over a given time period. Your spend on marketing (under which comes yer site) should be considered in relation to the Benjamins, natch.

I'll describe the most effective (and expensive) approach to getting your business up online, and hopefully it will at the least provide you with a stake in the ground from which to work backwards:

Firstly and formostly you need to establish a brand strategy to go alongside your business plan. From there a logo and visual identity will be needed to augment a strategic website information architecture (user flows, conversion optimisation of target audience, site map, wireframes, etc). 

Then, of course, you need a designer to make it look sweet. And as others have said, whack all of that onto a database-driven cms (because it's just as cheap these days as not). 

Content is also key, and it needs to be the offspring of a union between brand-strategy (who are we?), IA (where do we say it?) and creative (how do we say it?). 

You could get all of this taken care of by an agency, or you could manage the project yourself, choosing to have a range of peeps do the various parts for you.

When people don't tackle a new business in a proactive way, it (their business) tends to meander along aimlessly at best, which I'm sure is not the ideal.

Hope there's a few nuggets in there for you. Feel free to ask me any questions as I'd be happy to advise you.

On marketing walking tours, it would be good to get recommendations from hotels - your paper card in their reception or room packs, a flyer on their noticeboards or (as that's potentially a lot of paper) an advert (square, or square-ish) in those fold-out brochures. Links on their website also, once your site is up. I know which hotels I'd target, those that attract the heritage tourists.

Also, tell Time Out and other people who write London guidebooks.

Wyatt Earp wrote:


Because she still posts shit like '"stuff I've pulled". Explain?' You know very well what she did -- the first time around you were very angry about it yourself.

Stumpy Pepys wrote:

I'm not anti-CSS, I simply think Tubby's stumbling block is confidence, and CSS would be another layer added, "must master CSS" would be another thing added to the to-do list.

The way I learnt, and the way I've taught people, is through the buzz of publishing pages early on - that builds confidence, gets you hooked. Then, you can start to refine your design skills, with confidence, because you get the idea that you are controlling the process, it isn't some mysterious scary geek shit. Using pre-made templates, downloaded or in DW, is fine for getting you started.

Swimming isn't any better an analogy than surfing was, but you can't learn to swim from a book, you have to get comfortable in the water. I've lost count of the people who tell me they've done a web design course but "can't build a website".

G-Man wrote:
I don't know wtf you're on about, and most people either don't know, don't care or have moved on. And this thread is about websites.

it's also on a website spooky huh ???

G-Man wrote:


I'm not sure how that can be the explanation, though, unless you've lately acquired a Tardis. (Which means I must have misunderstood your meaning here.)

What I meant is that her past behaviour remains an issue because she is aggressively unrepentant about it.

Let me be very clear: if most other people had used another poster's revelation of using anti-depressants as a line of attack only once, never mind twice, they'd have been hounded from this place, and rightly so.

So for MsD to get all offended at a rather harmless little joke is, to me, an act of hypocrisy. I thought it was fair comment to point that out.

Im sure this isnt what Tubby intended when he asked for a bit of help.