Does it matter? If Tory backbenchers feel free to defy the whip on coalition policy, will LibDem backbenchers feel free to do the same on whatever it is that eventually feel they need to stand up for? Basically, is it the thin edge of the wedge for the coalition, with open internecine warfare about to break out?

Or is it a one-off with no long term consequences because the LibDems are even more scared than the Tories of facing the electorate?

I think, when it comes to the Liberals, we'll believe it when we see it.

What TonTon said.

Apart from on tuition fees, they haven't even felt the need to make it look like there was a dilemma involved. 4 of the MPs have done a very large proportion of the rebellions, and even they voted a fair bit of very bad stuff through.

Are the liberals better off facing the electorate before the seats are cut down by 50?

I will put good money on the Lib Dems not carrying through with their threat to block the bounday redrawings if the Tories allow the reforms to fail. They really are pathetic.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure if I really want these proposed reforms to succeed. They seem badly thought-out and they're keeping the bishops in the upper house. Perhaps the time has come to consider a unicameral system.

Naked self-interest has to made them block the boundaries, surely?

You think the Lib Dems have a sense of self-preservation? They already agreed to the legislation that allowed for the boundary redrawings in return for a referendum on an electoral system they didn't particularly want. A lot of the time, they've just shown themselves to be spectacularly stupid.

Yeah, what Our Kid said really. As with electoral reform, the Lib Dems have taken an idea that makes sound sense, and come up with something unappealing and clunky. And, frankly, if the torpedo-ing of this means the plan to reduce seats also fails, then hurrah. But then that requires the Lib Dems showing some principles and bravery, alien concepts to them.

Still, yet again we see that the most likely topplers of the coalition are the Tory right. Their righteous belief that they'd win a new election outright is a thing to behold.

i was curious about that. I saw a little bit of the commons debate on this bill the other day, and it seemed to consist a a weak little man trying to pretend that he's important, but given the abuse that was pouring down on his head you would be forgiven for thinking that he was standing on the wrong side of the house.

Then they let some of the seriously delusional staring eyed maniacs up to speak, and it basically ran along the lines of "Enough of this homosexuality, it's time to end this farce and just have a conservative government."

E10 Rifle wrote:


Could that actually happen? How, exactly? Would it come through a leadership challenge, or some other way?

Revolt worked without even a vote.

So now the Liberals are going to be very dross indeed.

And carry on voting for whatever the Tories want.

(cross, I meant, but the typo made me laugh so I've left it)

The twitters say:

Cameron apparently gave out to the lead rebel

I have a certain sympathy with these constitutional loyalists. A constitution is very important indeed, and I was just wondering where could I find a copy of the British one?

Here it is, in Pimlico London SW1:

So Cameron has pretty much said that he can't be arsed to push it any further, but if the Liberals will take a tiny elected element then he will represent the proposal.

And of course, it seems the Liberals will be happy to capitulate. Again.

That capitulation...

On the other hand, the reform of the Commons is looking less likely. Seeing there are a number of senior Tories (like IDS) who would have lost their seats, I reckon this won't happen.

The Tory rebels are utter idiots. Surely it would have been very easy to give Clegg some token elected element to the Lords, and in return much improved their chances in the next election.

Mind you, don't the Tories have a point in saying that the quid pro quo deal with the LibDems wasn't on boundary changes/seat reduction, but on the AV referendum, which they've already delivered?

It all goes to show that the LibDems struck an appallingly bad deal for themselves, and everybody else, in their negotiations with this going into the coalition agreement.

The Tory right are still in a stronger position than the LibDem 'centre'. (Though they're massively overplaying their belief that the country will hand an outright majority to a hard-right Tory administration)

Deals have gone out of the window yonks ago- or should have done anyway. Check out this for the Tory trashing of the Coalition Agreement:

liberalconspiracy.org/2012/08/04/th-ten-...coalition-agreement/

My favourite out of those is this one:



The other 9 run it close, mind.