ouch

Any sense of "what's next" from people, steveeeee?

Not sure, I think everyone shot their bolt a bit with the underwhelming protests this Saturday. The government leaked the budget figures out the day after, so reaction wasn't so strong on the streets. There's also the problem now of splits amongst protesters, the main union CGTP had a demonstration at the same time as the unaffiliated "Troika is Trash" facebook group's big free-concert. Last nights "OUT15" group were much more extreme, consisting of a very noticeable contingent of anarchists and skinheads, obviously wanting to ramp things up a notch.

The Troika is Trash movement seems the most effective, quickest to react and most importantly, peaceful. The Portuguese do anything to avoid conflict and if another protest involving the numbers of the September protest is to happen again, people need assurance it isn't going to kick off. Also, union involvement doesn't help things, many of the middle class probably wouldn't want to attend a march organised by CGTP.

In the long term, I guess a population already defined by huge numbers of people emigrating to France, Luxembourg and Switzerland will emigrate a lot more. Many middle class people will probably try their luck in Brazil and Angola, assuming they have the right connections. Lots of stories in magazines about how both countries are the land of milk and honey. I can't see how life could be more attractive in Angola and Brazil's employment market must be competitive. The school I teach at already had a lot of students leaving in December because their families are relocating to those countries, that was before this budget was announced.

The upper classes will stay put, they've got off quite lightly, but people earning between €20,000 and €40,000 are really up sh*t creek.

Glad the nazis didn't ruin it. Good luck.

Looking at various stats about Greece. It seems to have had very small primary classes in 2009, before the shit hit the fan.

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/se...sizes-school-funding

And lots of doctors.

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/ju...ending-world-country

You'd have thought there'd be some middle ground between these high levels and people going hungry. What a disaster the country is.

Meanwhile, the Irish electorate have forgiven Fianna Fáil.

Why don't Labour just disband, they clearly have no purpose.

Diable Rouge wrote:


This latest poll can be down to a number of things:

1- A sizeable number of the Irish public are thick.
2- A sizeable number of the Irish public don't care that the Fianna Fail Party brought about the economic collapse of the state, ad they've some good sorts who'll do you a good turn on some local matter.
3- A sizeable number of the Irish public are selfish bastards who didn't suffer in said economic collapse, and don't care if said engineers of this return to power.
4- A sizeable number of the Irish public, as has always been the case since the foundation of the state, will always vote centre-right. Fine Gael's difficulties in coping with the fiscal crisis and with the coalition with Labour, has left some voters annoyed. And the natural thing for a disaffected FG voter to do is to vote FF.

The cynic in me wants to regard 1, 2 & 3 as being the main reasons. But I can't help but feel that 4 is what's fuelling the resurrection.

Listening to some of the radio talk shows, they mentioned that the core FF vote in the poll was largely aged over 50, but I'd agree with you on 4, a large chunk of the FG vote was probably "on loan" from FF. The SF decline is rather baffling though, considering they're the only alternative for Labour voters.

The Coalition would still squeak a majority in the reconfigured 158-seat Dáil:
FG 63
FF 37
SF 25
Lab 17
Oth 16

ULA are an alternative for Labour. A rather more palatable one than SF.

True, but not outside Dublin, for the most part.

Who are those "Others"? Extreme Catholics?

Green Party, United Left Alliance, a number of independents ranging across the political spectrum. Of the 166 current TDs (our version of a MP), 20 of them are independents.

Ah, I take it back. They sound OK. ULA are lefties who think SL are murderers?

Can you name the only independent in the UK Parliament?

Tubby Isaacs wrote:


No, the founders (of the Socialist part, at any rate) left Labour 20 years ago when it started moving to the centre, they're most similar to Respect in the UK spectrum. In today's Euro summit, Merkel's not for turning on write-downs.

If by SL you mean SF (can't think what else, but I could have missed the point somewhere) then the two main components of the ULA come from traditions with different approaches to and opinions of armed Irish republicanism.

Merkel and Hollande are just fobbing Kenny off with standard diplomatic waffle, aren't they?

TonTon wrote:


Yes I did mean Sinn Fein, sorry.

They sound all right, but they've got all of 4 members of the Dail.

When it was in Coalition with John Bruton? That was one of Ireland's better governments, wasn't it?

I've looked it up, I see it predates that.

People willing to vote for Fianna Fail again just tells you how disillusioned they are with the available parties. If Fintan O'Toole, David McWillians et al actually started the party they threatened to start at the last election, they could pick up masses of votes.

Diable Rouge wrote:


They know Ireland's deficit is still 13.5%. If Kenny bothered his hole to close the deficit by taxing the rich in Ireland and cutting down on massive public sector pensions, then he might have some kind of bargaining chip to bring to the table.