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The Euro 2020 host venue options
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TOPIC: The Euro 2020 host venue options

posted 09-12-2012 20:24
You could count the number of cities where you could hide a couple of international games without travel and accommodation costs spiking, on the fingers of Django Reinhardt's hand. Paris is a global travel hub, with a population of 8 or nine million.
posted 09-12-2012 20:38
Sure. But places like Poznan and Kharkiv are at the other extreme. These are not the type of places that can seriously cope with 40,000 fans suddenly showing up. And when you host a major tournament in a single country/two countries you are always going to have the problem of not having enough big cities.

There are plenty of medium-sized cities in Europe that, while not Paris-type global cities, would be much more better equipped to deal with such a tournament than Poznan or Kharkiv. Dublin, Stockholm, Edinburgh, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Munich, Barcelona, Lisbon, etc.

Personally, faced with the choice of being able to follow all three group games in a place like Ukraine, or only make it to one or two group games in a place like Barcelona and make holiday out of it at the same time, I know I'd go for the second choice. Maybe that doesn't make me a real football fan, I don't know.
Last Edit: 09-12-2012 20:40:57 by António Pulisão é um gênio.
  • AMMS
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posted 09-12-2012 21:29
Duncan Gardner wrote:
Presumably the 'bidding process' and other logistics will happen well before the finals tournament, not during it. Possibly well before all the qualifiers are known. So Holyrood and the Scottish FA spunking millions to UEFA might get you Bulgaria v Romania. Who, you may remember, played at St James Park in Euro 96 to a crowd of about 5,000 people.

Glasgow's one of very few cities to have two UEFA 5 star stadiums, we've already spunked our millions to them thanks very much. We get them or we might get Spain v Germany.

Duncan Gardner wrote:
What evidence is there that UEFA specifically want locals rather than visitors at games? Surely they want whoever can tolerate high prices, while at the same time needing at least some rival supports to boost TV atmosphere.

The fact they take no account of what teams/countries are placed into what venues, the price of tickets which when you add travel and accommodation on becomes even more prohibitive, the number of tickets made available to participating sides and the number made available to 'locals' and sponsors.
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posted 09-12-2012 21:34
The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:
From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.

Why? Don't they have plenty of chance to see their own teams in the qualifiers? And if football authorities were keen on locals watching matches, they wouldn't set ticket prices at a multiple of the local weekly wage at the last two tournaments.


There is a difference between qualifiers and finals though. Plus if you live in a country with a shit national team then you might not see terribly competitive matches.
Ticket pricing is an issue I agree, but when you add travel and hotels on top then it's equally prohibitive if not more.
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posted 09-12-2012 21:41
AB2 wrote:
steveeeeeeeee wrote:
AMMS wrote:
Sean of the Shed wrote:
You say that like it makes it all ok.


Not my intention, simply an observation.

From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.
I like the 'host nation' style of tournaments but with national economies as they are just now I can see the attraction in this.


As a local, it was pretty easy for me to buy tickets 6 months in advance for the 2005 UEFA cup final in Lisbon.


I did the same for the 2011 final. I don't buy this idea that UEFA want natives at their showpiece matches. All they care about is gouging the maximum possible amount of money out of the highest possible number of people, regardless of the colour of those people's passports.


You don't think they'd rather have a sanitised stadium full of neutrals who want to enjoy the spectacle and match? Lots of photogenic kids and pretty woman rather than roaring teenage lads and pot bellied men shouting obscenities at the ref and opposition?
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posted 09-12-2012 21:47
The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:
You could count the number of cities where you could hide a couple of international games without travel and accommodation costs spiking, on the fingers of Django Reinhardt's hand. Paris is a global travel hub, with a population of 8 or nine million.


That's not right though, probably about 10 cities could without much difficulty.
posted 09-12-2012 22:07
AMMS wrote:
Glasgow's one of very few cities to have two UEFA 5 star stadiums, we've already spunked our millions to them thanks very much. We get them or we might get Spain v Germany


You almost certainly won't, Madrid or Munich will pay more. It's a food chain, not a lottery.

The fact they take no account of what teams/countries are placed into what venues, the price of tickets which when you add travel and accommodation on becomes even more prohibitive, the number of tickets made available to participating sides and the number made available to 'locals' and sponsors


That 'fact' has been contradicted in the past, has it not? England's perceived hooligan support being exiled to the islands in Italy 1990, for example. But more generally it doesn't follow that not rigging the draw means you prefer home based fans. You might want to at least pay lip service to an open draw.

Ticket prices can be marginal for travelling fans who've already shelled out for flights, hotels etc. As an example, NI fans paid €8 in Porto recently; had the price been three or four times that it wouldn't have greatly affected those who'd budgetted hundreds for the trip as a whole.

I accept that Northern European countries with a big away following often gurn about allocations. But most countries seem to allow them to be redistributed by touting.

Not sure what point you're making about sponsors. Coca-Cola aren't a local anywhere bar the Atlanta Olympics.

Lots of photogenic kids and pretty women rather than roaring teenage lads and pot bellied men shouting obscenities at the ref and opposition?


It's about maximising income, not a PR exercise. Fat Dads are prepared to pay more than milky bar kids.
Last Edit: 09-12-2012 22:12:06 by Duncan Gardner.
posted 09-12-2012 22:09
AMMS wrote:
You don't think they'd rather have a sanitised stadium full of neutrals who want to enjoy the spectacle and match? Lots of photogenic kids and pretty woman rather than roaring teenage lads and pot bellied men shouting obscenities at the ref and opposition?


They already have that, except it's corporate guests rather than genuine neutral football-lovers. And it's been the case for years. Look at the spectators at any random match in the World Cup finals.

I remember reading at the time that more than one-third of the crowd for Brazil-Scotland at France 98 (attendance 80,000) were there as guests of MasterCard.
Last Edit: 09-12-2012 22:10:30 by Selected Ambient Works 85-92.
posted 09-12-2012 23:35
Sure. But places like Poznan and Kharkiv are at the other extreme. These are not the type of places that can seriously cope with 40,000 fans suddenly showing up. And when you host a major tournament in a single country/two countries you are always going to have the problem of not having enough big cities.

but spreading a tournament over eight venues in an area as big as France and Germany put together is a stupid way to run a tournament. Poland and Ukraine couldn't afford to host this tournament properly, and the Ukraine end was held together with twine and massive bribes. For Irish fans, travelling to paris, staying for a couple of days, and then moving on to another european city in another european country is fucking insane, and brings all of the shit aspects of hosting a tournament in a couple of huge countries, with none of the benefits of a traditional tournament.

This problem is exacerbated by the difficulties caused by the draw. unless you're going to draw the teams on a geographical basis, then you're going to be faced with the prospect of absurd and unpredictable travel, opening you up to being completely (metaphorically) raped by the airlines. and if you don't do it on a geographical basis, you're giving certain teams an enormous advantage, unless none of them are going to be at home, in which case, you're left with the position of making everyone travel anyway.

That's not right though, probably about 10 cities could without much difficulty.

Really? You only need to half fill a flight before the cost of tickets starts to sharply rise, and the thing that dictates this isn't the capacity of the end destination to handle the influx, but the number of people starting from the other end. Only somewhere like paris or london would possibly allow you enough alternative routes to get there, and even then spare accommodation capacity in london and paris in june is pretty much at a premium.

It would only be worse everywhere else.

There is a difference between qualifiers and finals though. Plus if you live in a country with a shit national team then you might not see terribly competitive matches.

well..... tough. That's what club football is for. And it's not exactly as though this method they're proposing is any different to the earliest incarnations of the competition where they only played 3 games in one country for the semis and finals.
posted 09-12-2012 23:59
I don't see how this model is going to support games between two poorly supported sides, such as the Bulgaria v Rumania example cited above. At present those games are accommodated by the host nation factor, so 5,000 fans turn up just for the ambiance of the tournament, but there's no ambiance in Bulgaria v Rumania in Istanbul, or Serbia v Slovakia in Turin.

I don't think football in empty stadia can be compared to the American TV model which AFAIK still has spectators at the grounds.
posted 10-12-2012 11:33
but spreading a tournament over eight venues in an area as big as France and Germany put together is a stupid way to run a tournament. Poland and Ukraine couldn't afford to host this tournament properly, and the Ukraine end was held together with twine and massive bribes. For Irish fans, travelling to paris, staying for a couple of days, and then moving on to another european city in another european country is fucking insane, and brings all of the shit aspects of hosting a tournament in a couple of huge countries, with none of the benefits of a traditional tournament.


Yeah, but I didn't travel between venues, I only went to one match in Poznan. There were direct flights to Poznan, but couldn't afford a flight to Poznan. I had to get up at half past death to catch the first flight to Berlin. I slept on the grass next to the parking lot at Berlin airport for a while and then I was picked up by a Dutch car and we drove to Poznan. Watched the match. Couldn't stay in Poznan because we couldn't book a place to stay in Poznan. So we drove back to Germany and stayed there.

These are the lengths I had to go to in order to avoid Polish price gouging. The alternative was staying in a tent in the rain in Poznan with a few thousand drunk 21 year olds. It's great for them, they can take weeks off work and think it's brilliant to spend a couple of weeks in a field.

But what about families or older people who want to take in a football match? You can expect them to be sleeping on the grass at Berlin airport.

Don't tell me that Copenhagen or Stockholm wouldn't be better able to cope. They have much more accommodation and much larger airports with more available flights. Sure, the direct flights might sell out, but there are other indirect routes to those airports. Poznan airport is fucking tiny. Bigger cities with better accommodation and transport links would make the match attractive for a much wider audience, and we might not have to suffer Ireland being sung off the pitch after being humiliated.
Last Edit: 10-12-2012 11:36:29 by António Pulisão é um gênio.
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posted 10-12-2012 11:34
it's the let them eat cake approach to travelling to football matches.

This. Platini's was a monstrously offensive and ignorant comment - for reasons others have already emphasized. It's not just the half dozen flights within a fortnight, there's the accommodation, etc. But, f*ck it, what's ambience/flavour/carnival atmosphere when compared to flogging a bank of empty seats to IBM, eh?

I don't see how this model is going to support games between two poorly supported sides, such as the Bulgaria v Rumania example cited above. At present those games are accommodated by the host nation factor, so 5,000 fans turn up just for the ambiance of the tournament, but there's no ambiance in Bulgaria v Rumania in Istanbul, or Serbia v Slovakia in Turin.

Exactly. If you're expanding the tournament to 24 teams (which really didn't need to happen) then why alienate travelling supporters like this? 'Because it's not about the supporters'? Well, it has to be if you're opening up to lesser footballing nations: sponsors aren't going to bust their arses for the above...
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posted 10-12-2012 11:58
[quote="Bryaniek" post=739900]Tony C wrote:
When I was in Berlin I met loads of Italian, Irish and Spanish fans who had decided to spend the non-match days in Berlin. It was a more interesting city, the accommodation was cheaper and the football atmosphere there was actually better and less alcoholic.


Yeah but you couldn't met John Delaney in Berlin.

Couldn't stay in Poznan because we couldn't book a place to stay in Poznan.


You could have told me - i'd have get you free accomodation with young, good looking women, willing to improve their language skills.
Last Edit: 10-12-2012 12:00:59 by Magik.
posted 10-12-2012 12:23
you should probably have mentioned this before the tournament magik.

bryan, I'm not suggesting that they model the tournament on polkraine. That was pretty ridiculous. Poland itself is a very large country. If you're going to share the tournament, then something like Euro 2000, or Euro 2008 would be a good model.

But expanding the tournament to 24 countries is the real problem. It's just fucking insane.
Last Edit: 10-12-2012 12:26:10 by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!.
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posted 10-12-2012 12:42
Mentioned it lots of times before, almost everyone knows where i'm based. Garcia found me no problem.
posted 10-12-2012 17:19
I thought you lived in Gdansk?

And I must be the only Irish person who didn't get a free drink off John Delaney in Poznan. I feel cheated...
Last Edit: 10-12-2012 17:20:32 by António Pulisão é um gênio.
posted 10-12-2012 17:26
I mean about the hotties....
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posted 10-12-2012 20:24
Oh Berbaslug now i know what you mean. And Bryan, i dont live in Gdansk, but even better - in Sopot where the irish hordes had their base camp. I met John Delaney alright, he was tough to miss, my kids played with John Walters' children etc. but i wont go into details.

Poland's big place but not that big - i know people in Poznan too...But it's too late anyway...shame. Next Euros here are in 2020 though!
posted 10-12-2012 21:02
are jon walters' kids as fond of sunbeds as their da?
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posted 11-12-2012 07:31
Didn't ask to be honest...chatted to the man about his oldest daughter who was about eight at the time wheras the day before i translated a piece for polish version of uefa.com (yes i worked for Monsieur Twatini and his mates during the euros) about her not getting out of hospital for two first years of her life....it was good to see her in good health....
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