The Campaign for Better Transport are ruuning a survey looking for problems with transport to and from foobtall matches. Can I ask everyone on OTF to fill it in - it's quite a straight forward simple form.

Tackling foobtall travel survey

Many thanks.

Look, I know it's dull and boring and not that interesting but could someone fill it in please?

Btw, I am not involved with the above organisation.

Well it's pretty ridiculous to me the number of new stadiums that have been built next to railway lines, without a simple station being put in the planning consent.

Shrewsbury, Southampton, Middlesbrough, Morecambe, Coventry, Hull, Burton

Scunthorpe and Swansea a little more challenging on the engineering front perhaps.

Seems if you fall in a PTE area, Bolton, Walsall, Sunderland then common sense applies and one is built.

Totally agree, but if they put this into the planning consent, a lot of football clubs wouldn't be able to afford to move to their new ground. Also, things are put into planning consent making clubs pay for local improvements (S106 agreements). Unfortunately clubs are refusing to meet their obligations, including a rather large club in North London.

Think there is one getting built next to the Ricoh, remember passing it going between Nuneaton and Coventry last year and the line can only be about 50 yards from the gates of one of the stands.

Baptiste wrote:

The New Showground (as it should've been called) isn't far from the mainline to Donny.

Baptiste wrote:


Not that ridiculous. Very unlikely to have more than three trains needing to stop there a week unless it also serves a nearby community (Shrewsbury's wouldn't). It would also be unused for several weeks of the year, including periods in the season when there are no home games for a fortnight.

Without incorporating the stop into a regular 'local' service, it's probably not cost-effective to run a special service to it unless you can fill a train (we've been lucky to have more than one bus of away fans in D4 the past few years, so a train would be a tough ask).

Then you've got other infrastructure changes - signalling, some way of crossing the line (it would need a bridge), access issues, maintenance.

Really not worth it at all.

Lack of stations isn't a problem only for sports grounds. The Belfast- Derry line passes within 200m of Aldergrove Airport, but there's never been a station there.

On JD's point, a lot of the new stadia have been deliberately built away from town centres and even suburban housing, rather in industrial/ retail parks designed for motorists. So even less justification for a rail halt.

My team, Brighton and Hove Albion, I believe released statistics that showed around 60% of fans going to The Amex use public transport; the highest in the country by some way.

It's really busy, but it kind of works.

Unless Sussex University has an open day...

Jongudmund wrote:


With that attitude, you're right it isn't. Too difficult and not cost effective. Let's have everyone drive instead.

Not sure why signalling changes would be required, and a bridge isn't always necessary, if situated next to a road bridge. At the most basic, the platform need only be on one side should nearby crossovers exist, halving the cost.

Why does it have to pay when the matches aren't on? Apart from a lick of paint, what are the long term costs?

As for away fans, looking at where the New Meadow is for Saturday's game, I'd think that some home fans would use it as well, certainly I imagine lots of Bolton and Sunderland fans use their stations, but stand to be corrected.

Gangster Octopus wrote:


Yeah, that was my point, it's adjacent, but quite a bit higher than the ground itself.

Janik wrote:


We've got one moved this year because of freshers week or something.

The way railway signalling works is that you are not allowed into the section in front until it is clear. If you put a station in that next section it will spend longer in it. However, if you install additional signals, you can bring a train right up close to the station (maybe just a few hundred yards away) which means you either keep the exisiting capacity, or can increase it and have more trains on the line. Signalling sections can vary from a hundred yeards to 20 miles on the Heart of Wales line.

The overall problem is that football grounds on the edge of town do not work. It is much better to build in town and use the transport system of that town or city to transport fans about.

This.

TonTon In Agreement With Paul S Shock!

Many old grounds now characteristically inner-city were on the edge of town when they were built. Baseball Ground, Stamford Bridge, the Hawthorns etc.

Baptiste wrote:

That's because you don't know much about trains.

Baptiste wrote:

If it's single rail track you can get away with one platform, otherwise you'll need two. One for the up line and one for the down line.

Baptiste wrote:

Because railway companies aren't charities, football clubs are very unwilling to invest in public infrastructure and taxpayers demand value for money if it's taken on as a capital project.

At Shrewsbury the club has refused to create a footpath connecting one side of the stadium with the main road, leading to fans scaling a fence before every match rather than walk through the main gate. If the club won't pay for a footpath then they won't pay for a train station. So, who will?

Baptiste wrote:

This is the only part of your post I agree 100% with. Lots of fans would use it, but logistically there is nowhere near enough need for it.

Enjoy Saturday.

No, but they should be in public ownership, which would allow for considerations above profitability.

Jongudmund wrote:


That's where you're wrong, I work in the rail industry, I know all about signalling thank you very much. New stations do not require new signalling. Yes, they will affect the headway and planning of services, but that can be taken into account. Signalling changes are not required.

You don't seem to have grasped my other points, but never mind.

My point is that the powers that be should make sure that the stadium has a railway station if the stadium is next to the line. Once it is in place, the costs are minimal.
If the club wants the new stadium enough, it would be required to build the station. As a % of the cost of the stadium, it isn't that much.