Why can't these cunts just fuck off and die?

Emirates is overrated anyway.

You kind of saw that Bastia thrashing coming after the form displayed against Kiev a few days ago. Zlatan now with 7 goals in just 4 gamee, holy cow.

OM, OL and PSG leading L1, and while this doesn't have the romance of the small clubs winning against the odds, there is nothing really romantic about the smacking Montpelier and Lille are getting in the CL. I for one think that it will be good once again that french clubs will be going to that gunfight with something better than a plastic spork.

This season has the making of a classic 3-way fight between the three bigs, though I'm not sure if Lyon can keep up near the top without Lloris and Cris, even though it's always been a well-managed outfit.

What is the opinion of the italianate camp about Marco verratti? He looks like a very promising young cog at PSG.

So far, Verratti has massively impressed, he really seems to be special and the complete package to boot: great technique and ball-holding skills, vision, grit, can use both feet, can ping inch-perfect long balls, etc.

I can see why PSG paid £10M for him even though he's just 19 and was playing in Seria B last season (the big Italian clubs were not interested, "too short" they said, he's 5'5). Labelled "The New Pirlo", natch.

They really have a great midfield with Chantôme and Matuidi and it'll be interesting to see what happens when Mohamed Sissoko and Thiago Motta are fit again.

Great goal from Ali Ahamada (Toulouse & France U21's goalkeeper) in the 95th minute of TFC-Rennes (he headed TFC level):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuDFSgGS4ds

(it had been 16 years since a goalie had scored in open play in Ligue 1, Grégory Wimbée for Nancy back in 1996).

I'm not sure where you got that the big clubs in Italy were not interested. Milan were very interested, for one.

That's what I've heard and read in the French media several times (I'm French), doesn't mean they're right obviously - living in England, I only follow them superficially, eg through French TV.
Just tonight, the Italian specialist at Canal Football Club said that Milan (can't remember which one) were not interested. Presumably for the sort of price Pescara were asking once they got wind of the fact Ancelotti was keen.

Obviously € played its part. How interested would you say the big boys in Italy were?

As PPV says, Milan were very definitely interested, but not willing to pay what PSG did. Part of that is the internal economics of Milan right now, and part of that is a general feeling among Italian clubs that playersc of that age aren't worth that kind of money, but Verratti has been widely seen as a special talent for at least two years.

I'm pleased to hear that, he caught the eye when we (Chelsea) played PSG at Yankee Stadium in preseason, MOTM performance in my view.

Then, Kev, what we have is a minor sort of misunderstanding.
I can assure you that every single club in Italy was after Verratti. He is the one they wanted to sign because he's seen as the next huge Italian superstar. Italian!
As ua says, Italian clubs simply don't spend that kind of cash right now. They can't compete moneywise.

The € aspect is one of the things I don't understand with Italy at the minute. You and others (eg the Italian specialist on RMC, Didier Mengo) talk of the lack of financial clout of italian football, the fact that so many clubs cannot compete, etc. OK, granted, they are not flush.

But then you read (eg in Deloitte or World Soccer) that Serie A clubs have spent £310M this summer on transfer, which is high (£500 in the PL, £220 in Bundesliga, £190 in Ligue 1 and £95 in la Liga).

So is it just 2 or 3 clubs spending? (like in France). What's the crack then £-wise?

Also, the Canal Football Club Italian specialist, can't remember if it was Marco Simone or a non ex pro pundit - or possibly an agent even - said that (I quote) "Italian clubs were not interested because of Verratti's lack of height . Is there any substance in this PPV?

(maybe they meant that he was never recruited by a major Serie A club Academy because of his height and then Pescara sold to the highest bidder, PSG. He's no lightweight though, he looks pretty strong to me, maybe he's bulked up in the last two seasons).

Wasn't he a Number 10 before Z. Zeman repositioned him in midfield in 2011?

Isn't Giovinco shorter than Verratti?

Serie A transfer figures can be (and usually are) distorted by transactions in which clubs exchange players at inflated valuations in order to record accounting gains. You also need to look at net spending, not just gross.

Kev, transfers is one thing, what one club pays to another, you need to look at wages as well. The tax system in Italy is different from many other leagues when it comes to football clubs. In Italy, they don't have the sort of "artistic" tax like they have in, say Spain.
When a player signs there's the transfer and then there's his wages. The wages his agent negotiates is net, for him, then the club pays taxes on that wage.
In Spain I think you're allowed 5 years to work under "artistic" tax then you need to pay full, normal tax. That's one of the reasons why Barca released Ronaldinho, because he would be so much more expensive for the club.

This, I believe, is what ursus is pointing out.

It's why so many Swedish players leave for Danish clubs.
They pay something around 15-17% tax in Denmark as football player because they fall under the "artistic", together with authors etc, while in Sweden it's 30-40% (depending on wages), regardless.
And you know better than me that in France a politician urged for some insane 80-90% figure tax which would change a lot for how clubs can sign players, how much their spending would change.

Oh, and Verratti, I haven't read a thing about him and his height. What I've read is that he was a huge reason Pescara made it and that many clubs were after him.

Thanks to both of you for the clarifications about the Italian tax/transfer system, very interesting, I wasn't aware of those idiosyncracies (I don't know a great deal about Italian football unfortunately - I write about English football - and often have to rely on what I hear/read in the British or French media, especially for relatively unknown players like him).

PPV, tell us about Verratti please. Have I summed him up as you know him then?

Here's a good Paolo Baldini piece from the spring.

Which, btw, notes that Milan offered him a contract in 2008.

But then you read (eg in Deloitte or World Soccer) that Serie A clubs have spent £310M this summer on transfer, which is high (£500 in the PL, £220 in Bundesliga, £190 in Ligue 1 and £95 in la Liga).

So is it just 2 or 3 clubs spending? (like in France). What's the crack then £-wise?

It's very difficult to know to be honest. The whole system is very opaque at best, but There is such a thing as Part ownerships, where large amounts of money change hands while no players move.

Then you have as Ursus points out, clubs dressing up their accounts by swapping players for massively inflated prices. The way the scam works is that two clubs, we'll call them AC and Inter, sell each other a squad player for £10 million pounds. The underlying value of the player is completely irrelevant.

Both clubs are able to Book the sale of a £10 million player that makes this years accounts look really good. The player they've signed this season, just appears in their accounts as a £2 million charge every year over the next five years. Your accounts this year look £8 million better though. It will make next years accounts look £2 million worse, but since you're going to do the same trick again next year it's not a problem. oh, and no money changes hands. But they seem to have cracked down on this a bit.

The other thing to consider is that italian clubs churn a lot of players between themselves. This inflates that figure further.

As far as I can make out, Inter more or less broke even in the transfer market this summer. Milan made at least €50 million but they're very opaque, and Juventus spent about €30 million net. Most of the other clubs in Italy are net sellers, with only a few like napoli, regularly investing in their squad. Even they sold lavezzi to fund their activity this season.

23 in, 20 out, 21 out on loan.

It makes Harry Redknapp's activities at West Ham during the 1990s look like a goldfish bowl with no fish, pebbles, fake seaweed, rock archways or fish-food in it.

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:


Insane! What is this crazy process called?

"Bilanciopoli."

The process also had the happy effect of shoring up their balance sheets as well. It can get very confusing.

For instance Gianmarco zigoni is a young striker who is pulling up trees for treviso. in 2009 AC milan sign him for €1.3 million. He spends the season in the youth team. In the summer he moves to Genoa, when as part of a deal to sign Sokratis Papastathopoulos, Milan sell half of his rights for €3.75 million. This means that this then 19 year old has a total value of €7.5 million. he spends the season in the genoa youth team, going out on loan for 6 games to frosinone in Serie B he must have been absolutely amazing because milan paid Genoa €3.75 million to buy back the bit they sold Milan.

One of the other players involved in the papastathopolous deal was Nnamdi Oduamadi. Now this 19 year old nigerian striker had come through the primavera at Milan, when he had half his rights sold to Genoa for €3.5 million. He impressed the guys at milan so much they decided to sign him back on loan. And at the end of the season, they paid Genoa the €3.5 million. This €7 million striker was loaned out to torino in Serie B where he scored a staggering 3 goals in 11 games. This season he's on loan to varese.

The Third player in that transfer deal was Rodney strasser, now in this instance Milan give Genoa half the rights to a 20 year old with two serie A appearances valued at €2.25 million. (or €4.5 million in total) He stays at milan, where he plays 3 games. He then has his rights bought back from Genoa for €2.25 million. last season he went on loan to lecce where he scored once in 12 games.

Round about the time that milan paid Genoa the money for all of these players, you'll never guess what happened? they sold Papasthatopulous back to genoa for €13 million. (Pap, had played 7 games for milan immediately moved on loan to Werder Bremen, and now plays for them permanently) But no actual money seemed to have changed hands, as the deal involved the settlement of co-ownership deals over Giacomo Beretta, (Value €8 million, now on loan in the third tier) and Marco amelia, and alberto paloschi, and kevin prince boateng.

Ultimately very little actual money passed between these clubs, but they were all left with a lot of enormously valuable players, who are mostly on loan to lower division clubs.

oh and rodney strasser is the player that zlatan kicks in the back in training in that video from a couple of years ago.

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:


Thanks a lot TAB for your explanations, very interesting.