I think the only way to settle this is that we all put our Everpool sides/matchday 18 up and wee see which club contributes the most players. That's the next few hours sorted for me then.

Subs
Howard
Skrtel
Yobo
Rodwell
Fellaini
Cahill
Cole

Assume Torres and Saha are injured - who then up front?

Two-thirds of a Kubelegog?

Reina

Johnson
Jagielka
Heitinga
Baines

Mascherano
Rodwell

Gerrard
Arteta
Pienaar

Torres

Subs:

Howard
Neville
Agger
Cahill
Cole
Fellaini
Saha

CTT, I'd play a Spalletti 4-6-0. The two teams only have 2 competent strikers between them.

I forgot Heitinga, think he'd go straight in for Mascherano if he leaves.

Can I just say that like Gary Cahill, I just do not get Phil Jagielka and why he is quite well thought of.

Good god, why would anyone pick glenn johnson for that team. he doesn't have the first fucking clue about how to defend. It's embarrassing watching him sometimes. It doesn't matter that his marauding runs set up about 5 goals a season. His total failure to understand the basics of defending cost a lot more than that. Phil neville is a better right back than glenn johnson, and he probably hasn't played in that position for at least a decade.

Of the current liverpool team, only reina, torres and gerrard would get in a joint everton liverpool team (assuming mascherano leaves)

I must adnit I considered picking Johnson on the right wing with Coleman at right back but the latter hasn't played enough games to warrant it in this exercise yet. I picked the team in a WC hangover 4-2-3-1 with attacking full backs and a potentially shaky centre-half combination compensated for by a two man central midfield screen.

I was very close to putting Neville in too but , as you say, he doesn't really play at right back any more. He's on the bench to cover there and central midfield.

Perhaps I was trying too hard to put enough Liverpool players in there to try and make it more even, I didn't want their supporters to run away and not play the game.

if liverpool's players are soooo much better than everton's, how did they finish only 2 points ahead of them in the league?
Presumably for the same reason that Man Utd won 3 of the last 4 titles despite Chelsea having a significantly better squad available. Organisation, confidence and belief.
I mean, without wanting to get too Kubelgog on your ass, last season of Liverpool's 5 best players, one left, one didn't want to be there for the first half a season and showed it, and two of the remaining three spent most of their time on the medical table. The replacement for Alonso was injured all season too. Two of the three first choice central defenders were injured most of the season, we played with (at best) 2nd choice fullback for the 3 or 4 months that Johnson and Aurelio were injured. There was horrible in-fighting between management and owners, debt issues, and a gutter press that smelled blood resulting in the confidence of the team being shattered. And yet and yet they still finished above Everton. And didn't ship 5 goals to Benfica, 3 to Hull and lose both Merseyside league derbies.
Now I'm fully aware that as a Liverpool fan I'm somewhat one-eyed about my team. We all are to a certain extent. But unless Everton spend a massive amount this summer, or Liverpool lose Torres and replace Mascherano with Kerry katona I think you're all talking bollocks.

Don't use an 'unless' like that unless you're sure it definitely won't happen hobbes...

So you GUARANTEE Liverpool will finish above Everton?

No, of course I don't. I'm not in the guarantee business, I'll leave that to Rafa. Do you guarantee they wont?

hobbes, you've said you'll be surprised if Liverpool finish in the top 6 this season but as you think Liverpool's squad is far superior where do you see Everton finishing?

I can see Everton finishing anywhere between 5th & 8th - certainly no lower. I'd probably Make Liverpool very slight favourites to finish above Everton but I expect it to be close. I expect both to finish above Villa.

No, though I don't think I've ventured such an opinion. I think it's pretty much even as to where they might finish in the league and injuries could well be a major factor in who ends up higher. I am looking forward to seeing what impact Hodgson makes though.

I think the squad issue is illustrated by imagining a draft system based on the players at the two clubs. The first 3 or 4 picks might all be Liverpool players but the vast majority of the next dozen would be from Everton.

To be fair to Everton they had pretty terrible injury problems last season, certainly worse than Liverpool.

For the record I think the difference between the sides is not necessarily down to the squad as a whole, I think Everton compare very well if you looked at the bigger picture of the 25 man squad. I think the reason that Liverpool invariably finish ahead of Everton is because they undoubtedly have had more truly match changing individuals, in Torres and Gerrard from an attacking sense, Alonso and Mascherano in the creation or destruction sense and certainly Reina in goals.

Everton are a bit like Villa in as much as they have a good solid squad of professionals who are reliable and dependable, but they lack a certain spark throughout the team that they need to elevate them to true trophy competing teams. Liverpool did the difficult bit of getting players with the spark, their problems was that outside that small group of players the standard fell away dramatically.

hobbes wrote:
if liverpool's players are soooo much better than everton's, how did they finish only 2 points ahead of them in the league?
Presumably for the same reason that Man Utd won 3 of the last 4 titles despite Chelsea having a significantly better squad available. Organisation, confidence and belief.
I mean, without wanting to get too Kubelgog on your ass, last season of Liverpool's 5 best players, one left, one didn't want to be there for the first half a season and showed it, and two of the remaining three spent most of their time on the medical table. The replacement for Alonso was injured all season too. Two of the three first choice central defenders were injured most of the season, we played with (at best) 2nd choice fullback for the 3 or 4 months that Johnson and Aurelio were injured. There was horrible in-fighting between management and owners, debt issues, and a gutter press that smelled blood resulting in the confidence of the team being shattered. And yet and yet they still finished above Everton. And didn't ship 5 goals to Benfica, 3 to Hull and lose both Merseyside league derbies.
Now I'm fully aware that as a Liverpool fan I'm somewhat one-eyed about my team. We all are to a certain extent. But unless Everton spend a massive amount this summer, or Liverpool lose Torres and replace Mascherano with Kerry katona I think you're all talking bollocks.

Yes, Everton were lucky last year in that they suffered no injuries and didn't begin the season reeling from the loss of their best defender in a protracted transfer saga that unsettled the side so much they were viable relegation contenders until Christmas.

I mean, really, this is quite silly stuff you're coming out with Hobbes. What do you want me to say: we beat Chelsea and Man Utd so we're better than you.

Everton won't spend massive amounts because a) they don't have the money, and b) they don't need to because unlike Benitez, Moyes has been building a team for several years.

hobbes, you've said you'll be surprised if Liverpool finish in the top 6 this season but as you think Liverpool's squad is far superior where do you see Everton finishing?
There's more to it that just the players you have though isn't there? If not the Galacticos at Real Madrid would have won everything. Barcelona wouldn't have gone down 4-0 to Milan in the European Cup Final and Liverpool 2005 wouldn't have won the Big Cup (world cup winner Djimi Traore anyone?)
Everton have a settled, if rather ordinary squad (not bad by any stretch, but not particularly brilliant) and much as I'm loath to admit it, a long-term manager who's very good at organising a team and inspiring confidence. Liverpool on the other hand have a brand new manager, will have 4 or 5 new players to bed in, at least 3 of whom will go straight into the first team and still have the ownership issue hanging over them.
Like I said, Chelsea would be 4 for 4 if it was only about player quality. But it's not. And how Liverpool cope with the first month of the season, against Arsenal and Man City will probably go a long way to deciding their final position.

But this discussion is about squad quality and you seemed to think Liverpool's far outstripped Everton's.

I want to see your Everpool (or Liverton, if you must) side/squad. Come on, play the game!

the prospect of finishing above everton gives liverpool a tantalising target for the season. at least our second-quarter-of-the-table limbo will be spiced up by a meaningful rivalry.

mascherano is a big loss in some ways but statistics say we never lose when he doesn't play. i've always rated him highly - he's the best tackler i've ever seen and when he's up for the game he fights like a dog. but his attitude is poor - i didn't like the way he used a bunch of self-pitying bollocks about his wife and argentina struggling in qualifying to justify his shit form throughout the first half of last season. he mightn't be getting paid as much as torres and gerrard, but shouldn't £80k a week buy a bit more professionalism? so if we can sell him to inter for £25m and get someone half-decent in, so be it. we won't find another player as good as him in that mould, but maybe we can find someone with different qualities. i just hope his wife's head doesn't explode when she realises she has to refuse to learn yet another foreign language.

i'm more interested in the possible knock-on effects of hughes joining fulham. it seems likely he'll bid for bellamy - who might otherwise join spurs - thus making balotelli more likely to arrive at man city.

that will grant rafa benitez a transfer windfall of €25m, leaving him with a space in the squad for a forward who can operate wide. candidates should be hard-working, loyal and tactically disciplined. goalscoring a plus. if there's a better fit for the role of rafa's running dog than dirk kuyt i'd be surprised (and slightly appalled). liverpool might sting inter for €40m for mascherano and kuyt together. that would give roy a bit of wiggle room in the market.

Presumably for the same reason that Man Utd won 3 of the last 4 titles despite Chelsea having a significantly better squad available. Organisation, confidence and belief.

hahahahahaha