dalliance, you'd be amazing at arguing if you ever paid attention to the things that the other person is saying.

Well to be honest my previous post could double up as a summary of this particular thread discussion, or indeed a synopsis of your entire OTF footballing post history.

You are unerringly consistent I will grant you that.

dalliance, I seriously hope that isn't what you think I was saying. You should read the words on the page, not the ones dancing around in your head.

It is pretty much what I think you always say.

It is pretty much what I think you always say.

yes, think is the operative word. Maybe you should read them on their own merits. You are arguing with the voices in your head.

I mean one amazing example is how you manage to come to the conclusion that I think that all european cup finals that don't involve man utd are dull. I mean that's just fucking crazy. nearly every european cup final is desperately dull. and the two that man utd won most recently were spectacularly dull. but set against the standards of the two finals which preceded it, that final was really very dull. But you think it is acceptable to just make up stuff.

And the only thing that was fundamentally wrong with AC milan being in the final was that they shouldn't have been in the competition in the first place. This is because they are a rotten bunch of cheating cunts (not the players, the club) who along with juventus tore apart the last shreds of credibility of italian football. I think that's a valid criticism to be fair. They were still tougher opponents on the pitch than liverpool that season in the champions league though. (I mean that's how the final panned out isn't it?)

you should argue more with what I say, rather than what you think I usually say. You'd make more sense that way.

Harry Truscott wrote:
Reina

Johnson
Jagielka
Heitinga
Baines

Mascherano
Rodwell

Gerrard
Arteta
Pienaar

Torres

Subs:

Howard
Neville
Agger
Cahill
Cole
Fellaini
Saha

Maybe a combined Everton/Liverpool squad is needed for there to be any top flight football on Merseyside in 2011/12?

Do we know for sure that Liverpool will have 9 points deducted after the RBS take over on the 15th? Or is that still speculation?

They would then be this season's Porthsmouth.

If the bank do sieze control, it would be done so that they are not deducted 9 points as that would not be in the intrests of anyone besides potential purchasers.

The Purple Cow wrote:
Do we know for sure that Liverpool will have 9 points deducted after the RBS take over on the 15th? Or is that still speculation?

Well, there's many trains of thought to be honest.

RBS could automatically put the club, or the holding company of the club into administration, in order to drop other debts, in order to make it more saleable.

If they don't put the club or the holding company in administration, then there would be no deduction.

If they put the club into administration, they get a nine point deduction.

If they put Kop Holdings into administration, that depends on whether they follow the Football League's example with Southampton (where the holding company, rather than the club went into administration). The Liverpool Echo is claiming that the PL would not view it as Liverpool FC being insolvent (which doesn't matter as far as the rules are concerned, because the rules regard being in administration, rather than being insolvent) and that "a deal has been done".

But then the Liverpool Echo claims that Liverpool have no other creditors, which I would find utterlty staggering, especially as with the deadline approaching, there is little to no incentive for Hicks and Gillett to pay the bills. And considering that RBS is partly owned by the State, what is the potential fallout for shafting businesses and even the public revenue in the shape of the Taxman?

Coming back to Liverpool's woeful form on the pitch. I think right at this moment a distinction needs to be made when apportioning blame.

Yes, the Americans have run down the club and ensured the sort of instability that has taken Liverpool out of the top echelons of the English game but Liverpool are not the only club in the world who operate in a less than idyllic state of zen in the boardroom, many clubs know little else and just have to get on with it without it being a cause all excuse for everything that goes wrong.

However much chaos there might be upstairs, the players are getting paid every month - again, a luxury not all contracted professional players can be guaranteed - and there is absolutely no reason on earth why the current group of players Liverpool do have should not be doing enormously better in matches with the sort of teams they are failing badly against - it is a squad still packed full of international players after all.

Pinpointing the blame here is tricky, it's easy to blame Hodgson but he has not been setting them out in any sort of way that is all that much different from what they were used to before. You really have to look at the players themselves and wonder if they are using the off field nonsense as an excuse for them to coast. I cannot think of any player who has had a good season so far apart from the keeper. It is not in any sense the fault of Hicks and Gillett though, however much else they have to answer for.

Dalliance you are one of the most knowledgable posters on this forum but I'm afraid your last sentence in that post defies logic.
Leadership comes from the top, these two clowns could'nt lead a dog for a walk. We have two twats running our club who can't even safely attend our stadium to see the side play, do you honestly believe that this situation does'nt filter down throughout the staff inclusive of players .

fuck off roy!

I feel really sorry for Roy but the fact is that this board wanted a yes man in the job and this is the result of those actions,and yes he can fuck-off.

dalliance:

it's easy to blame Hodgson but he has not been setting them out in any sort of way that is all that much different from what they were used to before.

the second-last sentence of today's guardian match report reads:

Liverpool finished the game with Gerrard at centre-back, Raul Meireles at left back and with Kyrgaikos up front

what the fucking fuck?

among liverpool fans, roy hodgson divides opinion. some see him as a yes man, some as a stuffed shirt, others see him as a chinless wonder, still others as a wrinkled, flaccid old turkey somebody's had plucked and wrapped in a blazer as a macabre prank. the one thing everyone agrees on is that he's already fucked. he's lost everyone's confidence, he's already failed. they need to sack him now. appoint someone fans can identify with, dalglish, o'neill, whoever. someone with some fucking force of personality. end this bullshit now.

Torres. As I said, the situation at Liverpool at the top is far from ideal but come on, there is a limit to what they can be blamed for once the players step onto the pitch.

Today they were playing a team with a convicted rapist in the boardroom, one with a ground that was not even ready for the new season meaning their fixture schedule was messed about all over the pitch. Then the manager had next to no money available, the money he was given came about a week before the end of the transfer window and was massively hamstrung by a maximum wage payable which teams in League One can easily beat. Morale was not exactly helped when the existing players did not get their promotion bonuses until 3 months after they were due, this coming after angry training ground confrontations and the threat of a player strike.

By comparison the close season for Liverpool's players was tranquil surely? Everyone got their pay and bonuses, the batch of senior international players they already had was supplanted by other World Cup internationals like Cole and Raul Meireles for transfer fees and wages that Blackpool can only imagine. A new and experienced manager came in with fresh ideas and a new approach.

So how come Blackpool shrugged off their greater off the field instability and not only won today but deserved to? There is plenty of excuse for Liverpool struggling to match Chelsea or Man United or Man City, there is no justification for them failing to match teams like Blackpool, Utrecht and Northampton with the still respectable quality of player they have available to them.

Liverpool finished the game with Gerrard at centre-back, Raul Meireles at left back and with Kyrgaikos up front

Sounds like the team is being prepared for O'Neil already!

Liverpool finished the game with Gerrard at centre-back, Raul Meireles at left back and with Kyrgaikos up front


what the fucking fuck?

Teams adopting odd formations and positions when desperately chasing a game late on is hardly uncommon.


Supporters at the game and on 606 were calling on Dalglish to take over, a sign of how fucked up everyone is when they want a dinosaur back in charge. The game moves on rapidly, several seasons out of management is a lot, Dalglish's absence from top flight management can be measured in eons.

The only factor anyone could offer up in support of his candidature was 'passion' and garcia offers up 'force of personality' which I take to mean a similar thing. Have we not disproven the whole passion rubbish when we look at the recent history of England managers? Also, since when did Kenny Dalglish acquire any semblance of a personality or passion? Lunacy.

exactly, which is why it's time to say bye bye to roy.

Was that a response to my post?

This shouldn't really surprise anyone. liverpool lost 20 times last season. The club has been falling apart for a couple of years now. Hodgson obviously isn't the man to save them, but then again no-one is.

It's not hodgson's fault that torres is fucked. It's not hodgson's fault that carragher is now a liability. it's not hodgson's fault that mascherano wanted to fuck off. It's not hodgson's fault that rafa made sure that he drove benayoun out of the club before he left. It's not hodgson's fault that skrtel, agger, and johnson are hopelessly inadequate and wouldn't get in the birmingham team, and it's not his fault that he had about a million quid to buy a left back.

roy hodgson is just liverpool's terry venables, the elderly english manager brought in to steady the ship after rafa o'leary failed to get champions league football In the wake of a hilarious miscarriage of justice in a courtroom.

Joe Cole is nicky barmby, the inadequate, past-it english player signed to mask the huge holes appearing in the squad, poulsen is the new jody morris

Without stetching it too far, Liverpool have lost all forward momentum. It eventually happens at every club that keeps promising to win something, without ever actually managing it. It's just unfortunate that behind the scenes at liverpool (like leeds) it coincided with financial desolation and the manager going completely insane, poisoning the atmosphere at the club.

They're fucked. They won't be relegated, but they could easily finish in the bottom half, as a prelude to being relegated next season.