Well, I've been laughed out of town for saying Pittsburgh reminds me of Barcelona without the Gaudi, but I still say it's the case.

Random thoughts :

There's much too much to go into here, mouse, but if you can you should listen to the FAN590 stream at any time (noon EST for Hockey Central and 4-7pm for Bob McCown). It's pretty much all Leafs talk. McCown counts George Gillette as a friend and often news about Liverpool ownership will break on a Toronto radio station - but I digress.

A decent book will be Damien Cox and Gord Stellick's '67' - the last year the Leafs won the cup. Which reminds me, check Youtube for '50 mission cap' by the Tragically Hip.

Did you know that Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment also own Toronto FC and the Toronto Raptors ? These will also suit you in your quest for non-achieving North American spors teams / franchises.

Perhaps think of the Leafs as you would Bayern Munich, only without the winning (comes to mind as I'm currently reading 'Tor !').

Also what's interesting to note, as everyone is aware, the last time the Leafs won the Stanley Cup the NHL only had 6 teams. They have never won since the league expanded to 12 teams and beyond in 1967 to date. So, in that respect I suppose they're a little like Liverpool, but again, only without the winning !

WoM's pretty much nailed it, though. Toronto sells out every game and the ownership seems more bent on raking in the cash than they do in winning championships, They pay lip service to the cause, but they needn't bother as the fans simply won't stay away.

An interesting fact I heard just today is that there is currently just one player remaining on the current squad of 22 from the team that took the ice just two years ago - no prizes if anyone can guess who that is. 21 of 22 players gone in just over 1 season.

And I could go on and on... but why bother ?

Are the Leafs simply too valuable, money-wise, for a proper owner to ever buy them? I mean, if Basille wants a Canadian team so bad, he should just buy the Leafs and try to turn them around.

It's a shame that the Leafs are so bad. They have such nice uniforms.

Hugh Fatbastard wrote:
Random thoughts :
There's much too much to go into here, mouse, but if you can you should listen to the FAN590 stream at any time (noon EST for Hockey Central and 4-7pm for Bob McCown). It's pretty much all Leafs talk. McCown counts George Gillette as a friend and often news about Liverpool ownership will break on a Toronto radio station - but I digress
To prolong the digression, I find news like that being announced odd when McCown clearly hates football.
An interesting fact I heard just today is that there is currently just one player remaining on the current squad of 22 from the team that took the ice just two years ago - no prizes if anyone can guess who that is. 21 of 22 players gone in just over 1 season
I'd guess at Tomas Kaberle. The Flames are making a pretty good stab at something similar, having now traded (in or out) sixteen players in a little over a month. To call the populace confused by the acts of a seemingly ever-more-desperate GM, is something of an understatement. Phaneuf we could sort of understand, he was regressing, and causing disharmony in the room, but some of the other deals, yikes. Calgary and Toronto seemingly have some mutual agreement about dumping unwanted players on each other.

Calgary and Toronto seemingly have some mutual agreement about dumping unwanted players on each other

Since you brought it up, does anyone think Matt Stajan is worth the contract Calgary just signed him to ?

Another team you could compare the Leafs to because of their dominance on the airwaves, regardless of region, is Man. Utd., but again I point out without the winning part.

It simply all comes down to the advertisers and sponsorship and Toronto being the financial capital of the country. I'd hate the Leafs as well if I lived anywhere else and were forced to watch them these days.

I was going to suggest that the New York Knicks might be similar, but I'm not sure if they're still drawing full houses at MSG.

They're not, and haven't been since about 2000. That said, they still are averaging about 19,000 (capacity is 19,763).

The Leafs should be Exhibit A in any case against geographic monopolies in professional sport. The Knicks are a reasonably close comparison (as are, I'm sorry to say, the Cubs), but the Leafs have taken the piss out of their fans, the league and the hockey gods to a greater extent, and for a longer period. They serve as an object lesson to what could have happened if the National League never put an expansion team in New York and the CBS/Michael Burke/Horace Clarke/Jerry Kenney Yankees had the continent's largest and richest media market to themselves.

It's a cautionary tale.

Which is why it's really important to put another team in Ontario.

Did the Sens take more fans from the Leafs or the Habs?

Presumably the Leafs, but I've always understood that there is a significant core of Ottawa-area Leafs fans that have maintained their allegiance (and that Leafs fans that cannot obtain/afford tickets to the ACC turn up in Ottawa).

The Sens are also failing to sell out this season, btw.

We used to get that with Flyers fans coming to Caps games, but not as much now that the Caps are - for now - selling out every night.

Hmm, the view of the Pittsburgh baseball park could well swing it.

My mate is trying to arrange a stag do and did raise the possibility of a baseball trip. Maybe I should suggest a time when there's an overlap between the hockey and baseball seasons, though I'm not sure if there is (you may have guessed I'm new to this and somewhat learning on the fly), though it could involve moving the wedding, which may not go down well...

Hugh Fatbastard wrote:
Since you brought it up, does anyone think Matt Stajan is worth the contract Calgary just signed him to ?
Probably not - he's not had a single 20 goal season to this point - but the team has taken on worse contracts in the last month.

Stajan will probably replace Langkow as our second line centre in the summer; Langkow should be moved at the draft as he's a a) million dollars more expensive and b) in sharp decline. I suspect a player or two might have to be buried in the AHL if we want a #1 centre. Having said that, to that end the Olli Jokinen experiment has cost us both our first round pick this year (and if we finish outside the playoffs, as is very highly likely, it'd probably be top 10), and any chance of signing Cammalleri last summer. Not one of Sutter's best bits of business.

There is now significant overlap between the two seasons.

The baseball season now begins on 1 April (or even 31 March), while the hockey playoffs begin around 15 April and last until some time in mid-June. There's also an overlap in October, as the start of the NHL season corresponds to that of the baseball playoffs.

[Edit: while it should be expected that the Penguins will make the playoffs and last at least through April, the chances of the Pirates participating in post-season play approach zero.]

No probs, ursus. I suspect I'll be going primarily for the experience rather than any great hope of watching something stunning.

Bruins fan here, living in Beantown... So if you are in these parts, let me know, I can usually score a couple of tickets. And I can always get good college hockey tix, Boston is blessed with the finest college hockey in the US. As in number of quality teams in one small town...

Reed of the Valley People wrote:

Did the Sens take more fans from the Leafs or the Habs?

I would have thought almost certainly the Habs. Ottawa - Montreal is half the distance of Ottawa-Toronto, there's a significant francophone population there, and in the 25 years preceding the Sens creation the Habs won nine stanley cups to the Leafs' zero.

Urs' point about Leafs fans coming to Ottawa because they can't et seats at home is true. But it's the reverse in baseball. We get lots of Sox and Yankees fans when those teams are in town for the same reason.

What's a "Hab" btw?

Any news on moving one of the less popular sunbelt teams to Canada?

And while we're at it: What's the status on the Nets going to Brooklyn?

Kurt Mondschein wrote:
What's a "Hab" btw?


A shortened version of their french nickname 'Les Habitants'.

The developer building the arena in Brooklyn just won a major legal case, and expects to finally break ground next week. It will still be a minimum of two more seasons before the Nets will be able to move there (they will play those in Newark), and there is still a chance that the entire thing will fall apart (neighborhood opposition to the planis quite vocal).

Kurt Mondschein wrote:


Any news on moving one of the less popular sunbelt teams to Canada?



It'll only happen over Bettman's twitching corpse.

The success of the Coyotes on the ice this season (though definitely not at the box office) has made the issue disappear temporarily. Expect it to reappear during the dog days when hockey writers have nothing else to write about.