My instinctive reaction to that last assertion of Sean's was "don't be daft, surely the other South American teams (apart from Brazil and Argentina) always hold their own at the World Cup", but no, he's absolutely right. In fact in my lifetime, only Peru (once) have reached the last eight, and that was the year they beat Scotland, and everyone thought that was a joke when it happened.

In the same period, something like 20 different European countries have reached the last 8 of the World Cup, if you call the Soviet Union "Russia", Yugoslavia "Serbia" and Czechoslovakia the "Czech Republic". And East Germany did so in 1974 - I'm not sure to whom you'd assign that achievement among the modern countries (unless Germany can be said to have reached the World Cup last 8 twice that year).

That looked too amazing even when I read it back. I'm going to have to list them to check I've got that right.

European countries who have reached the last 8 of the World Cup in my lifetime:

Holland
East Germany
West Germany
Poland
Sweden
Yugoslavia
Italy
Austria
USSR
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Ireland
Czechoslovakia
Bulgaria
Romania
Denmark
Croatia
Turkey
Ukraine
Portugal

Well it's 22, strictly, then, 4 of which no longer really exist. Compared to South America's 3, Africa and North America's 2 each, and Asia's 1.

Sean - Of course a number of European sides regularly stink out the tournament - they constitute about half of the competitiors, so a number of them are bound to perform poorly. Plenty of qualifiers from other confederations do likewise, and on a greater scale.

I'm not advocating that Europe deserves more places at the WC, by the way, just challenging the assertion that Europe is lucky regarding the number of places. One of the features of recent European qualification campaigns is the number of groups with four and even five teams in the running for just one automatic qualifying spot. If you discount the like of the Faroes, Liechtenstein, Andorra, San Marino, Luxembourg and Malta, none of whom will ever qualify, you're left with 47 countries who are all capable of taking points off one another. Teams seeded fifth like Albania, Georgia, Macedonia and Estonia regularly take points of sides that are seeded in the top two.

For me it's an issue of strength in depth. Europe has teams that don't qualify yet in the campaign they will have taken points off sides that will be making the WC Semi Finals. No other confederation has that. So with just 13 places available, Europe is the most difficult region to qualify from.

friday i'm in love but sunday is the draw...

what about...

hosts - ukraine & poland

pot 1:

Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy, England, Croatia, Portugal, France, Russia, Greece, Czech Republic, Sweden, Switzerland, Serbia, Turkey

Pot 2:

Denmark, Slovakia, Romania, Israel, Bulgaria, Finland, Norway, Republic of Ireland, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Austria, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Slovenia, Latvia,

Pot 3

Hungary, Lithuania, Belarus, Belgium, Wales, FYR Macedonia, Cyprus, Montenegro, Albania, Estonia, Georgia, Moldova, Iceland, Armenia


Pot 4

Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Malta, Faroe Islands, Andorra, San Marino.


8 groups of 4, 6 groups of 3. home and away, winners only go through.

if uefa agree to proceed on this basis, my fee is 1% plus image rights.

Wouldn't go spending the money yet, bruno.

Etienne wrote:
Wouldn't go spending the money yet, bruno.

*goes back to drawing board*

Bruno- you've named 15 top seeds for your 14 groups.

While watching Ultonia's last less than impressive friendly performance, I started daydreaming of the view from the Palace of Culture and Science. Mainly as there was a gap in our left-side defence as wide as Marszalkowska.

Duncan Gardner wrote:
Bruno- you've named 15 top seeds for your 14 groups.


for added excitement, one of them doesnt get drawn, and therefore eliminated at the draw. but well done, pike, i was wondering who'd be first to notice that.

But in the end why should the small nations miss out on a game against one of the major teams in world football. These games are a major source of income for a country such as Malta or the Faroes, whereas they will get fuck all out of playing home and away against Moldova and Macedonia, still with little hope of emerging out of it at the with anything better than a couple of points. Also without the occasional game against bigger nations, how could they hope to maintain interest in football among the younger supporters.


Sean, apart from the dosh factor, I can't see the point really in regularly having yer San Marinos taking it up the arse from yer Germanies, etc. I really don't think any of the minnows will "maintain interest in football among the younger supporters" if their national team continues to get hammered 12-0 every time they take to the field. And they don't develop their football, rather customise it to limit damage.

If there were a preliminary phase for the minnows (and we all know who they are ... at the moment), they would be in a better position to develop a football that isn't based on parking a bus in front of the penalty area.

And the teams that do get through to play the big boys (whoever the latter are - it could change) will have earned that right, and will be better equipped to deal with them. Only then will the "younger supporters" get to be proud of their national team for going head to head with the Germanies, Englands, Italies of this world.

For Belgium, I want a group with Russia, Romania, Israël, Albania or Moldova and Malta.
Only for the trips.
We won't get any of them.

For Belgium, I want a group with Russia, Romania, Israël, Albania or Moldova and Malta.

i'd apply for devils rouge travel club membership by then.

Andrzej Szarmach of ex-Auxerre fame has just said he hopes to draw an interesting group for Poland, for example with Germany in it...

what a moron.

Azerbaijan/Armenia and Russia/Georgia won't be drawn into the same group has just been announced.

haha Steph: Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan for you!

full draw



Grupa A: Azerbejdjan, Kazachstan, Belgia, Austria, Turcja, Niemcy.

Grupa B: Andora, Armenia, Macedonia, Irlandia, Slowacja, Rosja.

Grupa C: Wyspy Owcze, Estonia, Slowenia, Irlandia Polnocna, Serbia, Italia.

Grupa D: Luksemburg, Albania, Bialorus;, Bosnia i Hercegowina, Rumunia, Francja.

Grupa E: San Marino, Moldawia, Wegry, Finlandia, Szwecja, Holandia.

Grupa F: Malta, Gruzja, Lotwa, Izrael, Grecja, Chorwacja.

Grupa G: Czarnogóra, Walia, Bulgaria, Szwajcaria, Anglia.

Grupa H: Islandia, Cypr, Norwegia, Dania,
Portugalia.

Grupa I: Liechtenstein, Litwa, Szkocja, Czechy, Hiszpania.

games to be played on Tuesdays and Fridays so the players can return early to their clubs...

Are Hungary any good?

Oh joy...

Is there anything to do in this 'Wales' place we've drawn? Any good breweries, good transport links etc.?

Are Hungary any good?

no idea but at least they belong to the same language group as you.

Yeah, there are Irish pubs, McDonald's and prostitutes, that should cover the needs of 90% of travelling England fans...