Heh. I suppose what I was trying to say (in two words) was that there's no reason to feel that just because you're 'educated' (to whatever level) that doesn't mean that skilled manual labour should necessarily be something you turn you back on. There is (or was at least), very good money in tradesmanship: just about every landscape gardener, electrician, plumber and builder I know makes a very decent living, especially compared to supposedly better educated people like myself, who are struggling alone.

In any case there's a huge difference between acquiring knowledge and intelligence. Mind you, I did have an interesting conversation about Hemingway with a window fitter once.

Most probably would.
While refurbishing the offices above Pimlico Tube Station a while back I overheard a sparks say ".........my mates a hitman". In such a casual manner it was chilling.

It does put a smile on my face when you end up overhearing a conversation (or engaging into one) between people that you did not expect would be interested in the subject (I guess our own prejudices come into play...) because of it's aracane or "complicated" nature.

It just shows that there are still people curious about other things than football, tits and celebrities (which let's face it, is what makes up a lot of conversations, even in polite society...)

The difference between hypothetical and likely to happen is sizable and as for overemphasizing concerns, well that's created an entire culture of jokes/moaning about 'jobsworths' telling you what you can/can't use.


Given that construction has the most deaths and one of the highest rates of injury of any occupation, I'm quite happy for HSE to be sticking their noses in.

That overheard website, oh dear. I remember a particularly explicit conversation with Spangles and a couple of other ladies on a bus once and realising gradually that the whole bus was enthralled.

there's no reason to feel that just because you're 'educated' (to whatever level) that doesn't mean that skilled manual labour should necessarily be something you turn you back on
My best mate has a first class degree in Genetics. It got him a job as a lab-tech.
He's now a self-employed highly qualified plumber, who works 3 days a week and unsurprisingly earns more than he did a as lab tech for a 5-day week. It means he and his GP wife get to both do 3 days a week and still always have someone at home with their 2 year old.
He knows fuck all about history though.

Ah, well, plumbers are a different breed, as we all know. There's no accounting for plumbers. Loose cannons...

Well, the work's draining.

Ginger Yellow wrote:

Given that construction has the most deaths and one of the highest rates of injury of any occupation, I'm quite happy for HSE to be sticking their noses in.

Well, yes, but that's like saying that cabbies - for some reason - get into more traffic accidents than dentists.

Well, no not at all. It's saying in a job where the inherent risks are higher, there should be more input from HSE.
I wouldn't expect to have site training in an office, but I wouldn't want to work on a site with only "the water fountain's over there, make sure you get up and walk around once an hour."

Right. That's what I'm saying, too. Well, kind of.

Saying there's more injuries in construction is like shooting fish in a barrel. No matter how many H&S lectures you attend, you're still going to have more people hitting their thumbs with hammers than you would in an insurance agent's office. It's just part and parcel. If you put in 10,000 man-years on tall structures, you're going to have more people fall off tall structures than you would sitting in office chairs.

I'm not saying you shouldn't hold H&S seminars to reduce the numbers as much as possible, though.

No matter how many H&S lectures you attend, you're still going to have more people hitting their thumbs with hammers than you would in an insurance agent's office. It's just part and parcel. If you put in 10,000 man-years on tall structures, you're going to have more people fall off tall structures than you would sitting in office chairs

Of course. But it also means the potential benefits from improved safety procedures (and enforcement effort, for that matter) are much higher.

Well, that would depend on what the level of safety procedures is to start with. I suspect that working on a jobsite in 2010 isn't very much like working in a coalmine in 1890. The laws of diminishing returns probably kicked in many years ago.

you'd be surprised. A couple of people a year were dying on liam carroll's sites in dublin in the mid nineties. A couple of high profile courtcases from the Health and safety people and The rate of serious injury fell markedly as the boom progressed, meaning that if the Health and safety people don't crack down, (and they were far too lax here) then casual deaths and serious injury would soar.

Taylor wrote:

Yeah, and weirdly, the worst one of all is Terry Jones, who's from Colwyn Bay. Then again, maybe a North Walian trying to do a South Walian accent is like someone from Middlesbrough playing a cockney. He should have just used his normal voice - as if anyone could have told the difference! Har har!

I’m your man.

<adopts Bob Newhart tone. But shamelessly stealing off Harry Pearson in the Guardian the other day, delivered in a deep, rumbling Teesside voice that sounds like a half-laden coal truck driving slowly over a cattle-grid,> “I suspect it may sound a little like this” –

Orr norr, Ah swear down, Ah wudden dare be you, yer daft cunt, yer ‘ead’s massive, cough, harrumph…awight tweacle, er…I love the Queen Mum, me, er…oi, oi, saveloy, er…I ‘ad that Shergar in the back of my cab once…West ‘Am….er….gavnah….pie, mash an’ licker, laaaahverly…

Thank you. We'll call if we need you.

Next!

You should hear me do Geordie.

We're looking for someone taller.

On the UK H&S issue. Theres so many people on London sites now originating from countries where H&S does not exist as a concept. Balkans, former USSR states, eastern bloc etc.

Ive seen a Kosovan kid being asked to paint a section of exterior wall that was inaccesible while the main scaffold was in place.
The site management intended him to erect a smaller scaffold tower outside of the building and work from it.
Instead he tied a rope around his waist and with the other end tied to a scaffold tower already erected indoors climbed out of the window and semi abseiled down the wall two floors up......him and his mate couldnt see the problem

Deaths on UK sites have been increasing recently. Probably not so at the moment as theres so little work around.

Regarding the language questions upthread: If someone needs to have a safety exam translated for them then its not safe or fair for other people to have to work around them.

I personally wont work on the "big" sites "up-west" or "in the city" anymore for these very reasons.
Seeing two Romanian kids dismantle a timber/plywood barrier infront of an open lift-shaft to make themselves seating was the final straw. The main contractors agent wouldnt get H&S involved so four of us walked off site never to return.
It cost us three days wages until we found a new job but hey "We're alive still".

Broken Clock wrote:

Regarding the language questions upthread: If someone needs to have a safety exam translated for them then its not safe or fair for other people to have to work around them.


See, I can't quibble with a word you've said except for this bit (which was what set me off way upthread). Why does a person's lack of English mean that they're necessarily an unsafe worker, or any threat to your safety?