evilC wrote:
Just chanced across this. Some nasty stuff has been happening in the lower divisions. (I know it's not the top flight, so is of limited interest, but this is the most appropriate place to mention it, I feel.)

The first of these two reports is actually on a music blog (that's why I saw it) but the second half of the entry deals with the very unpleasant trouble (and situation) :

r-a-b-m.blogspot.com/2010/08/once-again-about-politics.html

nomattimen.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/extr...ht-during-the-match/

Sounds like Karelia might be a team to support if you're at all inclined towards the left, though.

Yes, it does kick off in the lower divisions. This one's probably made the press due to the left-right connotations. Most... errr... "mobs" are right-leaning right across Eastern Europe.

PS Petrozavodsk is somewhat of an "anti-fascist" centre, I understand.

Most... errr... "mobs" are right-leaning right across Eastern Europe.

This is pretty much true everywhere in Europe, now. Italian curvae are veering more and more to the right every day, with only Livorno really standing out among Serie A clubs.

There is this fans' football tournament in Lviv being held annually. Wisla went over this year and there was also a Poland fans' team which was basically Ostrovia (if I am not mistaken). They ended up playing each other on the pitch in the quarter-finals... and then met up in a park later on. Most of the participants were locked up.

heard about it. you are right it was Ostrovia. was supposed to be there representing Poland but my friends had other plans so we pulled out at the last minute. Ostrovia (Lech Poznan territory) replaced us, decent guys not looking for trouble, went there to play football and have fun. from what i was told it was Wisla who started it showing they had knives etc. disgusting...doing such things abroad especially in Lvov is unthinkable...

thanks for your enncouragement AE: will think about doing polish league thread the lazy person i am...

ursus arctos wrote:
Most... errr... "mobs" are right-leaning right across Eastern Europe.

This is pretty much true everywhere in Europe, now. Italian curvae are veering more and more to the right every day, with only Livorno really standing out among Serie A clubs.

Don't know of many in Eastern Europe, actually. Bohemians Prague are left-leaving.

If you take the Balkans, nationalism is, like, well high on the agenda, not leaving too much space for the left on the terraces.

Magik wrote:
There is this fans' football tournament in Lviv being held annually. Wisla went over this year and there was also a Poland fans' team which was basically Ostrovia (if I am not mistaken). They ended up playing each other on the pitch in the quarter-finals... and then met up in a park later on. Most of the participants were locked up.

heard about it. you are right it was Ostrovia. was supposed to be there representing Poland but my friends had other plans so we pulled out at the last minute. Ostrovia (Lech Poznan territory) replaced us, decent guys not looking for trouble, went there to play football and have fun. from what i was told it was Wisla who started it showing they had knives etc. disgusting...doing such things abroad especially in Lvov is unthinkable...

thanks for your enncouragement AE: will think about doing polish league thread the lazy person i am...

Ostrovia played last year IIRC. Wisla played in the same group as Liverpool fans this time, who commented that they looked a bit scary but they were very cordial, though their match with Bohemians Prague was on the verge on exploding, apparently.

I was thinking of going over last year but the timing wasn't good for me; however, there was a bit of a hoo-hah at the final (or the semis, can't quite remember now) as a couple of right-wing banners (hung by the locals) appeared in the stands and one of the Liverpool players whom I know commented on this over the mic. The organisers initially pretended as though nothing really happened - only a brief mention of a left/right wing disagreement but eventually I think they had to discuss the issue with FARE (Football Against Racism, whose banner was torn down at the final as well) in preparation for this year's tournament.

The aforemention Liverpool fan had a anti-fascist banner at the games from the start. Eventually it was nicked and he was attacked in the street.


I had a little discussion with one of the organiser afterwards, asking why they don't invited a team from Moscow (they do get Zenit to attend) but he was basically "we don't like that lot over here", which in my opinion kinda goes against the stated intentions of the tournament. Funny old places Western Ukraine, history leaving them somewhat... errr... scarred. Plenty of chips on those shoulders. And the whole issue of fascism in that particular region - well, it's a difficult one since post-independence (as in Latvia and Estonia), there is the re-assessment of the role of the Ukrainians who fought for the Germans, their SS divisions, etc.

Also, no doubt, people have noticed this
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8955148.stm

I think this was initially ignored in the Russian press but tabloids over here kicked up a fuss, perhaps with the WC-2018 in mind.

As you can see, the official Russian response is quite ridiculous.

Been reading a Spartak Moscow guestbook on the subject. The reaction seems to be along the lines of
1. wtf?
2. Is it worse to call someone a fat bastard or a negro?
3. I buy bananas for my kids. What sort of statement am I making?
(facepalm)

Sash, you mean "real" Bohemians, not the "plastic" variety, right? They may be alone; there are some nasty firms in Poland, as Magik has chronicled on here.

And you are dead right about Western Ukraine; it's a strange place with a troubled history that no one seems interested in acknowledging.

ursus arctos wrote:
Sash, you mean "real" Bohemians, not the "plastic" variety, right? They may be alone; there are some nasty firms in Poland, as Magik has chronicled on here.

And you are dead right about Western Ukraine; it's a strange place with a troubled history that no one seems interested in acknowledging.

Oh, no, not the "plazzies". Staunchly pro-Bohemians myself here ever since paying 2 quid* to get in and getting sh*tfaced on 80p/pint beer behind the goal 7 years ago. That was, of course, before the whole unsightly mess began. Was trying to send them my 20 quid for the membership when they were collecting the money to get the club back but they never got back to me.

Re: Western Ukraine. Would like to go at some point - maybe, will finally get there during Euro2012. I don't think it's particularly surprising that it's a bit weirdy over there nowadays - throughout history bigger neighbours trampling all over them at regular intervals would leave them somewhat dazed and confused.

Mind you, the more cynical Western Ukrainians I've met in England are all a bit meh about the post-independence... errrm... "national revival". "Yep, as if the politicians really care about all that. Just feeding the local retards what they think they wanna hear..."

*Yeah, I think it was 100 crowns.

Yeah, Magik, do a Poland thread. I wanna know what Lechia Gdansk are up to. Adopted them a few years ago. When's the ground going to be finished?

well, it's a difficult one since post-independence (as in Latvia and Estonia), there is the re-assessment of the role of the Ukrainians who fought for the Germans, their SS divisions

not that they had much choice during the war...

i had this exchange with you Sash during the 'conflict' in Georgia. i hope you understand why some of former eastern block members get a bit over-sensitive with some of Russia's actions, statements etc.

as for western and central Ukraine (including Kiev) i was surpised with their attitue towards Russians and friendliness towards us, polish.
In Lvov they even invited me to a pub commemorating UPA - a partisan army who killed thousand of polish during WWII in what was eastern part of Poland before the war.

shame we didn't manage to meet in London but we should meet next year in Lvov for couple of Lvivskie beers...

you know even the name of Lechia is adopted from a team that had this name before the war - Lechia Lwow (Lviv/Lvov etc).

well, the ground is going to be finished by next spring. like i mentioned here couple of times before we play Juve for the opener. it will be symbolic as we played our only home game against them in 1983 in the middle of Solidarnosc fever.

drop me a line if you are here for the Euro2012 or earlier. there is a strong international committee coming from Edinburgh for the derby we have against Arka Gdynia (16th October).

one day we could do a game in Kaliningrad. if my wife allows me to that is. have you ever been there? there is a train from i live to Kaliningrad that takes about 5 hours.

yeah i think i'll start polish league thread soon. it will be about the happenings on the pitch and nearby forests too.

Magik wrote:
well, it's a difficult one since post-independence (as in Latvia and Estonia), there is the re-assessment of the role of the Ukrainians who fought for the Germans, their SS divisions

not that they had much choice during the war...

i had this exchange with you Sash during the 'conflict' in Georgia. i hope you understand why some of former eastern block members get a bit over-sensitive with some of Russia's actions, statements etc.

as for western and central Ukraine (including Kiev) i was surpised with their attitue towards Russians and friendliness towards us, polish.
In Lvov they even invited me to a pub commemorating UPA - a partisan army who killed thousand of polish during WWII in what was eastern part of Poland before the war.

shame we didn't manage to meet in London but we should meet next year in Lvov for couple of Lvivskie beers...

Well, SS Galizien was a volunteer division. And as for being caught between the devil... and, well, the devil... I think I also mentioned at the time that it does not seem to be generally recognised how much the Russians suffered too.

I had a cracking couple of days in Kiev when I went. Great city and I lurrrrve Bulgakov*.

Yeah, read about the UPA pub - Jews and Moscovites are most welcome. :) Will bear EUROFAN in mind for next year and will keep an eye on what the Liverpool crowd planning to go over next year is like (they do have a chap who's played in goal for the last 2 years but he's a bit rubbish, by all accounts), but I might be spannered by the operation to get the metal out of my leg.

*The Ukrainians with nationalist leanings aren't such great fans, though, since he dismissed the Ukrainian language as a bit of a joke and took a rather dim view of the Civil War era Ukrainian independence movemements.

Magik wrote:


drop me a line if you are here for the Euro2012 or earlier. there is a strong international committee coming from Edinburgh for the derby we have against Arka Gdynia (16th October).

one day we could do a game in Kaliningrad. if my wife allows me to that is. have you ever been there? there is a train from i live to Kaliningrad that takes about 5 hours.


Well, the plan for Euro 2012 is to get my old boys' team over to Sopot/Gdansk to play the Polish side that visited us in Oxford. Ideally would like to go for a week, starting in Warsaw or perhaps Lviv and maybe play a match there too.

Not been to Kaliningrad. Another weirdy place, I hear.:) Ah, might post a Baltika Kaliningrad update here, actually.

*The Ukrainians with nationalist leanings aren't such great fans, though, since he dismissed the Ukrainian language as a bit of a joke and took a rather dim view of the Civil War era Ukrainian independence movemements.

haha i better not talk about the guy then when i meet my Ukrainian mates come Saturday in Lodz. there is friendly between us and the Ukrainians will probably help improve our morale after last 2 games (0-6 v Spain and 0-3 v Cameroon).

while i've been to Ukraine in 2007 for 2 weeks, their language was unrecognizable from Russian at first but at the end it seemed very similar to polish. maybe that's the joke?

Well, the plan for Euro 2012 is to get my old boys' team over to Sopot/Gdansk to play the Polish side that visited us in Oxford. Ideally would like to go for a week, starting in Warsaw or perhaps Lviv and maybe play a match there too.

Not been to Kaliningrad. Another weirdy place, I hear.:) Ah, might post a Baltika Kaliningrad update here, actually.

why not make it a double bubble? we can play your team too. we are not proper old boys though on the wrong side of 35.

we played Baltika in yet another friendly before the season. they looked like a decent side even being near the bottom of Russian Second Division.

Magik wrote:


1. haha i better not talk about the guy then when i meet my Ukrainian mates come Saturday in Lodz. there is friendly between us and the Ukrainians will probably help improve our morale after last 2 games (0-6 v Spain and 0-3 v Cameroon).

while i've been to Ukraine in 2007 for 2 weeks, their language was unrecognizable from Russian at first but at the end it seemed very similar to polish. maybe that's the joke?


Maybe, stick to Gogol and Shevchenko. :)

As for the language... the chaps I spoke to in Kiev said he dismissed it as a primitve rural dialect . IIRC there is a scene in the White Guard where he pokes fun at the Kiev middle classes going all "patriotic" and wandering around with these thin little Ukrainian grammar booklet.

As for understanding the language - all the slavic ones are similar enough, I reckon, so once your ear gets used to the local pronunciation, you should be fine.


why not make it a double bubble? we can play your team too. we are not proper old boys though on the wrong side of 35.



Will need to see our state closer to the time as we'll all be in our late 20s/early 30s and judging by the rate, at which we're breaking down at the moment... Have a match in Cape Town in under 2 months and half the players have crippled themselves.

And back on topic
1. Zenit, CSKA and Spartak have had their Russian Cup matches moved to next spring (from 22 September) due to fixture congestion.
2. Spartak have announced the ticket prices for the Champions' League. Unlike at Zilina, who look to charge fans at least 50/300 EUR per match, you can get tickets behind the goal for the equivalent of about 10 EUR. Fancard holders can get a 15% discount if they buy tickets for all three group games at once.

Re : There is this fans' football tournament in Lviv being held annually. Wisla went over this year and there was also a Poland fans' team which was basically Ostrovia (if I am not mistaken). They ended up playing each other on the pitch in the quarter-finals... and then met up in a park later on. Most of the participants were locked up.

I was there, playing for the Belgium team. Great tournament. We played vs Ostrovia in the group stages and beat them. But as we were only a handful of Belgian lads who had bothered to travel and most of our (better) players were Ukrainian, we decided to let Ostrovia take our place in the quarter final stage (and ended up getting the fair-play award because of this). So we should have met Wisla, and glad we didn't.
We met the Ostrovia lads latter on, all the trouble came from Wisla. Actually, they should have played the semi final (vs Ukraine I think) but most of them were being held by the police because they fought in a night club the day before.
Also met the Bohemians lads and they were from the genuine club. And thankfully there was no mention from whoever participant team of politics, left or right (both of them are very very tedious i.m.o.)

Final was Karpaty Lviv vs Ukraine supporters (mainly made of Dynamo Kyiv and Dnipro fans)
Zenit was the third quarter finalist

Sorry for the hijack!

That's OK. Very sporting of the Belgians tbf. How many of you made it over?

Russia playing Andorra today. 1-0 up at the moment.

There seems to be an indication that all is cordial within the Russia camp. Namely (from a Spartak-related source tbf):
Akinfeev is fighting with Anyukov.
CSKA players aren't talking to Zenit players.
Zenit players aren't talking to anyone else.
Anyukov and Bystrov got sh*tfaced. Again. And have been let off. Again.
Arshavin is picking the team.
Advocaat's been told - Zenit for the national side, the national side for Zenit.
Bon.

Have to say that Zenit's failure to qualify for the CL group stages led to quite a few LOLs all 'round. This stems from the statements about "buying players for Europe" when Zenit make it to the group stages and talk of what a great thing it would be if Zenit became the "base" side for the national team. Plus the fact that many of their players are perceived as being quite unpleasant... even by the standards of modern Russian footballers.

Btw the last time Russia played Andorra, Arshavin got sent off and was thus suspended for the first two matches of Euro 2008.

re Eurofan : only 7 Belgians, including 4 players (in their early 40s) turned up. A real shame. At least 15 lads from my (defunct) team, RWD Molenbeek were going to turn up... but most of them pulled out for whatever reasons...typically Belgian...
2011 dates have been announced : 23-26 June.