1. Have live televised games always had an 'expert summarizer' alongside the lead commentator? If not, when did this innovation occur?

2. When did the co-commentator become an almost equal commentary partner rather than just someone interjecting during major breaks in play?

3. Is there any other sport that would tolerate a co-commentator (M Lawrenson) who only takes the piss and belittles the product? I can't imagine Jim Watt in his ITV heyday saying "These boxers are rubbish, Reg; I wish I'd stayed at home."

Can we use the phrase "color man" instead of any other here. I really like it.

As a lot of us commented on in the WC, Tyldesly was almost bearable on his solo gig for a game when Beglin was taken ill. He didn't have a partner in his double act or a physical audience so, er, spoke about the football in front of him.

But he's no longer a "color man" and instead gabbles over the play.

I recall Walter Winterbottom playing this role on ITV back in the 60s - possibly for the 1966 World Cup Final alongside Huw Johns? Maybe not that game but certainly him and certainly the 60s.

During the 1966 World Cup, Walley Barnes was co-commentator to Kenneth Wolstenholme for the final, but both the BBC and ITV used them before that. The earliest reference that I can find to one on British TV is Barnes and Wolstenholme together for a World Cup qualifying match between England and Ireland in 1957. ITV used two commentators at the 1958 World Cup finals, but they fell out of favour with the BBC until 1966.

As an aside, I think Kent "Grapple Fans" Walton may have been ITV's first football commentator, but I'm not certain about this.

As for negative co-commentators, really Lawro is a pussycat compared to the belly aching of Fred Truman on TMS back in the day.

'See, Aggers, these modern bowlers, aren't fit to lace the shoes of me, Brian Statham, fellas like that, now, Statham, he COULD bowl, not like this rubbish here' ad infinitum...

Sir James Armfield is the best of the long serving co-commentators.

I don't recall Bill McLaren needing a co-commentator for the Five Nations, or Benaud and Laker in the mid-70's (this changed around 1978 when Brian Close became one IIRC).

It seems to me that this trend was self-generated without any audience demand for it.

Welcome, density. Your mention of cricket is particularly apropos here, as my understanding is that this is yet another thing "you" have "us" in the US to "thank" for, and that it came from baseball.

When I was a boy in the Paleozoic Era, some baseball teams had a single radio broadcaster, but it was more common for there to be at least a duo and sometimes a trio. That was partially due to the length of a baseball game, which was seen as taxing the stamina of a single commentator (of course, Vin Scully, perhaps the greatest baseball broadcaster of all time, is doing games by himself at 81, and doing brilliantly, so the theory is at best questionable). It was even more prevalent on television, perhaps because early televison broadcasts (like television drama, game shows and chat shows) featured one of the commentators doing live adverts for sponsor's products.

By the 60's, "color guys" were common in just about every sport televised on US networks, and the use of ex-players in the role had become standard. Interestingly enough, the major league baseball Game of the Week, which began in the early 50s, always had a two-man announcing team (though Dizzy Dean was a Hall of Fame pitcher, he was a "play by play" guy rather than a "color man" during his announcing career).

And let's not even talk about the American penchant for three people in the broadcast booth. Why not four? Or five? Or twenty-six?

I think the two voices works, the fact that each person gets a break from having to say stuff should allow them to consider the situation and offer analysis rather than whatever comes into their head - as well as offering an alternative viewpoint. Obviously it depends on the right people being chosen, which I think is the issue with the current football situation. But it works very well in cricket.

"Three Men in a Booth" is Monday Night Football's fault.

Three-man announcing teams were common in baseball in the 60s, but they covered both television and radio simultaneously, with the usual split being two guys on tv and one on the radio, and roles being rotated every three innnings.

One of the ways in which Roone Arledge tried to make MNF into an "event" was to have all three guys talk at the same time, with one roles roughly being play by play guy (Keith Jackson/Frank Gifford), a "serious" color guy (Howard Cosell), and a "humourous" color guy (Don Meredith).

I quite like Radio 5's way of doing rugby, with a commentator allocated to each team, and whoever's in possession, that commentator, er, commentates.

On radio commentary it's essential to have two commentators. Having to "paint a picture" of the play requires a lot more spoken word, otherwise it would leave too many awkward silences.
Not only that, the suicide rate would increase tenfold if people had to listen to a 90 minute Alan Green monologue.

Gangster Octopus wrote:
I quite like Radio 5's way of doing rugby, with a commentator allocated to each team, and whoever's in possession, that commentator, er, commentates.

Do they really do that? I've never noticed.

Or do you not actually mean proper rugby?

Etienne wrote:
I think the two voices works, the fact that each person gets a break from having to say stuff should allow them to consider the situation and offer analysis rather than whatever comes into their head - as well as offering an alternative viewpoint. Obviously it depends on the right people being chosen, which I think is the issue with the current football situation.

Yes, this.

I still awake some night's screaming from the memories of R5 Sports Extra's commentaries on Cardiff games which had Jacqui Oatley flying solo.

Murray Walker definitely needed someone riding shotgun with him. "And Mansell has crashed again!" "No, Murray, I think that was a replay."

wingco wrote:


I recall Walter Winterbottom playing this role on ITV back in the 60s - possibly for the 1966 World Cup Final alongside Huw Johns? Maybe not that game but certainly him and certainly the 60s.

I think Billy Wright was used as well, but again I'm not sure of the exact details.

Billy Wright went to ATV after losing his job as Arsenal manager in 1966, and stayed there (and at Central TV) until he retired. He was the Head of Sport, but also did some co-commentary work and dabbled in punditry, too.

I can't remember any World Cup games having any co-commentators on a regular basis until Italia 90 ,I think British involvement in a game meant that they would wheel someone out with a tenuous link to the side involved.