This game (BAR-STU) could be about 2-1 already.

WHAT A hit!

Ho hum, just another bit of magic from Messi.

Just before he went on that run, I was about to type that a goal was going to come from one of the teams at any moment.

holmgang, man utd have scored a lot of own goals this season, but that's because they have wingers and fullbacks that can hit the endline and fire the ball across the six yard box. They score a lot of goals themselves using that tactic. It's not a sign of weakness on man utd's part, but that they put the opposition under a lot of pressure.

Sure there are some parts of the man utd team that are getting on a bit and will have to be replaced. But at the moment things seem to be working pretty well, despite a long injury list. But you can see that ferguson is trying to rejuvenate the team. If anderson and nani haven't worked out well, valencia, jonny evans and rafael are better. There are also quite a few highly rated young players coming through the academy. There is at least the semblance of a plan for continuity.

Chelsea don't appear to have that. I mean last night it was

-------------------Turnbull (25)
Ivanovic (26)----alex (27)----Terry (29)----Zhirkov (26)
------Ballack(33)----Mikel (???)----Lampard (32)
-----Anelka (31)-------Drogba (32)----Malouda (29)

Joe Cole (28) and kalou (25) came on as subs. But other chelsea players not involved who will probably need to be replaced are carvalho (32 in a couple of weeks) deco (32) ferreira (31) Beletti (35) and ashley cole (29) looks like he might be out of there given how they've decided to punish him and not terry for their extra marital indiscretions. They've also only offer joe cole a £36,000 a week contract so he's probably going to go as well. My point has always been that chelsea play a very physical form of football, and that is a game for 24-28 year olds, and most of their important players are beyond that.

Roman is going to have to get out his chequebook. In a serious way.

Is Ibrahimovic injured, or just 'rested'?

Great pass from Messi, lovely goal.

En fuego.

That was gorgeous.

Barcelona look set to kill the game off in the first half.

I've just thought of how much of a sickener it would be for Barcelona to win the Champions League... at the Bernabeu. Hehehehehe

Ah, I didn't realise that the Barca game was being commented upon in this thread.

Mourinho didn't sign Joe Cole but he took him on as a project to turn into an important player, to some reasonable success. He could have just as easily taken a look at him on arrival and said no, slow and weak, bin him.

But joe cole was a very highly rated young english international, in a similar position to ballotelli at inter. talented but a bit wayward. Given that he had to get rid of veron crespo, mutu, and a whole heap of others he kept him. But he never became that important a player, and he constantly berated him in the media

He also kept him as a peripheral player in the team out on the right wing, or occasionally playing at the tip of the diamond when chelsea wanted to be very very boring indeed.

And let's not fool ourselves that Mourinho didn't really want Ashley Cole all along, height protestations or not. Who would not want the best left back in the League, one who was playing for major rivals and was pretty keen to come.

But it's a sign of his thinking. He always said that the type of players he'd need to dominate english football would have to be vastly more physically powerful than at porto. He never showed any interest in signing deco for example, but went out and paid the same amount of money for tiago, who was 4 inches taller than deco.

what a great goal by messi. Stuttgart are well out of their depth tonight. They don't have any of the composure that they had at home.

Is Lehmann going to get himself sent of at some point?

The Mighty Kubelgog!!! wrote:
holmgang, man utd have scored a lot of own goals this season, but that's because they have wingers and fullbacks that can hit the endline and fire the ball across the six yard box.

How do the wingers and fullbacks get to that endline? Is it using "skill and clever passing" or is it the strength and speed you were so derisive about earlier? Turns out the main attributes from players like Evra and Valencia is that they run fast and can get into deep positions. It's not exactly a mystery how United do this. Valencia is about the most typical example of an English winger you can get (aside from that whole Ecuadorian thing).


It's not a sign of weakness on man utd's part

But then nothing ever is, right? Winky icon etc.


Sure there are some parts of the man utd team that are getting on a bit and will have to be replaced

Some parts? Which parts are youthful and world-class? If you manage to name three young world-class players on United's team, we'll get you crowned High King by the weekend. (no, the three below aren't it)

valencia, jonny evans and rafael are better

Those are decent squad members, nothing more. Valencia is a typical straight-line, hit-it-well winger who is neutralized painlessly by a world-class defender. Evans hasn't shown that he knows how to deal with top strikers, but I guess he's the top pick of the three you listed. I doubt he'll reach the caliber of Rio (over it, badly) and Vidic (wants away, made to look foolish by Torres et al). Rafael's yet to show his mettle, and of course he's all of 5ft8in, without any of the sheer physical ability that a short fullback needs to succeed in the league (see also "Evra, Patrice" or "Cole, Ashley").


Roman is going to have to get out his chequebook. In a serious way.

Absolutely. I am sure the Glazers will do the same thing for United given the glaring lack of youth-team replacements for many ageing stars, right? I'm sure they'll happily give Fergie another 31m pounds for top players like Berbatov?

just class.

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed that game. Henry was a bit of a letdown, but everyone else played fairly well for Barca... although quite a few of their passes were misplaced, and they should/could have won by a few more.

But, thats just hypercritical. And I think people will soon run out of superlatives about Messi.

The boys on rte are slating stuttgart, but I think they'd like to adopt lionel messi. I don't think I'd like to get bordeaux in the next round.

hmm, holmgang, my point kind of is that the only midfielder at man utd that you would describe as having any real physical presence is fletcher. The only forward with any physical presence is rooney. the way they play when in posession is based on moving the ball around quickly, getting the winger up against the full back or forcing an overlap. When they had ronaldo, they'd also go straight for the throat a lot.

I suppose the big example of the difference that I'm talking about was last year, in the game that eventually did for big phil last year when chelsea lost 3-0 to man utd, and ryan giggs completely ran the game, running rings around ballack, lampard and mikel. It wasn't about power or strength, but giggs scooting around the pitch, carrying the ball, and pinging it to teammates. like a big game steve mcManaman. That was around the time that they voted for the player of the year, and helped him win that award.

as for valencia, he looks like a fine player. Recently it seems like He can put the ball on rooney's forehead from any angle without looking. He is a bit direct, and he'll have to adapt once people cotton on to him, but he works very hard, and I quite like him. He's no Ronaldo, but apparently he's created more chances than any other player this season in the league.

Johnny Evans is a pretty decent player and I honestly can't think of too many better 22 year old centre halves, and to be honest if rafael is ever fit, I think he could become a great player. He's a very explosive and aggressive full back, and he's not a bad footballer as well. Ferguson obviously expects a lot from him, and last season he was right back for half the season and played pretty well.

I remain very dubious about nani's supposed new maturity. he looks like the same inconsistent, rather stupid footballer he normally is, and anderson is a disaster, and so is berbatov. I mean they're not bad players, but they will need to be replaced on top of scholes and giggs. But right now, things aren't really that bad. They're scoring buckets of goals, and if they can get a settled back five they'll be very strong over the final straight.

I'm with the RTE guys. You can't go to Barcelona and challenge them to an open game of football. Lyon and Bayern Munich did that last year and got battered.

And for all their open approach, I can barely recall them getting any crosses of note to the centre forwards, the route you think you might get something off Barcelona.