the 'fucked' thread has got me thinking, especially as i dragged hardcore and the admirable diy ethic of people like ian mackaye into it.

how fucked are we, really?

i would argue that it's never been easier for any dickhead with ideas and a noise-making implement to find people to make music with, get the music made, and force people to listen to it and discuss it.

i'd argue that if we're fucked at all, it's due to a surfeit of choice and the balkanisation (if you will) of musical genres.

anyone much more intelligent than me have a thought?

Two immediate thoughts spring to mind:

a) music's never as good as it was while you're living through it and you're older than nineteen until it suddenly becomes great 2-3 years later;

b) if the past were any good we'd have stayed there.

saucy tramp! wrote:

QUOTE:
i'd argue that if we're fucked at all, it's due to a surfeit of choice and the balkanisation (if you will) of musical genres.

anyone much more intelligent than me have a thought?

I'm not more intelligent than you, but...

I agree with that statement about the surfeit of choice. Sites like Myspace allow people to get their music out into the public arena with the minimum of effort. This is great for consumers of music, like me. However, it's not so great for the artists themselves. I know of at least two artistes who haven't released anything yet simply because the returns won't be worth it, in relation to the effort (and possibly the outlay) involved.

We have a 'music glut', in short.

also i find it completely mind-boggling that pretty much everything i'd need to make a chart hit can easily fit in my laptop, an object about the size of a coffee table book.

a friend of a friend has recently been flown over to new york and feted by all sorts of hip-hop heads on the basis of a demo he knocked up using only a laptop and the software that came free with it.

the klf manual explained how to have a number one hit in a week, with the caveat that (and i paraphrase) "within a few years the japanese will have invented something that does away with the need for studios etc." and it's becoming true. if they were writing that book now, it'd probably be how to have a number one hit in a day.

I've discovered loads of bands over the last few years - some current and some ancient. The thought that there are hundreds more to be discovered is very exciting.

There's never been a better time to be a music fan.

evilC wrote:

QUOTE:
saucy tramp! wrote:

QUOTE:
i'd argue that if we're fucked at all, it's due to a surfeit of choice and the balkanisation (if you will) of musical genres.

anyone much more intelligent than me have a thought?

I'm not more intelligent than you, but...

I agree with that statement about the surfeit of choice. Sites like Myspace allow people to get their music out into the public arena with the minimum of effort. This is great for consumers of music, like me. However, it's not so great for the artists themselves. I know of at least two artistes who haven't released anything yet simply because the returns won't be worth it, in relation to the effort (and possibly the outlay) involved.

We have a 'music glut', in short.

I'd put that exactly the other way around. It's great for the artists because they can get exposure and build a following without needing the middle-man of the music industry. It's shit for listeners because most music is plain bad, and you need to weed through more of it than ever in human history in order to find the good stuff.

Spearmint Rhino wrote:
[quote most music is plain bad, and you need to weed through more of it than ever in human history in order to find the good stuff.[/quote]

Agreed - even though I said there's never been a better time to be a music fan you certainly have to do a lot of digging to find the good stuff

Spearmint Rhino wrote:

QUOTE:

I'd put that exactly the other way around. It's great for the artists because they can get exposure and build a following without needing the middle-man of the music industry. It's shit for listeners because most music is plain bad, and you need to weed through more of it than ever in human history in order to find the good stuff.

Heh! I read a '20 questions' interview with one of my favourite 'recent' musicians, Catherine_K, the other day. They asked if she had any advice for her fellow young female electronic artists, as there's been an explosion in them in recent years. "Yeah. Most of you suck ...but don't stop trying." Typically brutal honesty from her, but it is true.

The number of people who contact me on Myspace wanting to link (be 'friends') who I have to refuse because they're either a) shit, or b) haven't bothered to check my tastes in the slightest, way exceeds the number of bands I have accepted (well over 2000). I know you've stopped accepting 'friend' requests from bands, haven't you, SR? ...And in no uncertain terms too, I seem to recall! :-)

Yeah, I haven't been accepting band requests for years. I have a phobia of orthodox indie rock, and 90% of all requests fall into that category. I prefer to find things for myself, by word of mouth recommendations or by chance.

QUOTE:
also i find it completely mind-boggling that pretty much everything i'd need to make a chart hit can easily fit in my laptop, an object about the size of a coffee table book.

However big or small the stuff, you still have to learn to use though.

Which I can't

As I mentioned in the other thread, we are as fucked or not as we ever have been.

There are loads of shit bands out with a smaller proportion (but still loads) of really good one. 'twas ever thus.

Unless, of course, you are G-Man and preferred everything pre-56

orthodox indie rock

Interesting phrase. To me the first two words seem mutually exclusive, superficially at least. But I suppose that's accounted for by my musical Rip Van Winkle period: kid being born to kid leaving home. I confess I don't really know the full meaning of the term "indie." I suppose to most of you lot that's like not knowing what the word "socks" really means.

Amor de Cosmos wrote:

QUOTE:
orthodox indie rock

Interesting phrase. To me the first two words seem mutually exclusive, superficially at least. But I suppose that's accounted for by my musical Rip Van Winkle period: kid being born to kid leaving home. I confess I don't really know the full meaning of the term "indie." I suppose to most of you lot that's like not knowing what the word "socks" really means.

No. In the 80's we knew what 'Indie' meant - it was short for 'independent', i.e. the kind of record label you were on*. It covered everyone from Ben Watt to Discharge (and in the late 80s even Kylie). It didn't so much describe a sound as a worldview (musically-speaking, at least).

These days, it seems to simply stand for everyone who has their hair at just the right level of greasiness, their jeans at just the right altitude on their hips and their guitars at just the right mid point between jangly and distorted. All rubber-stamped by their (major) record labels of course and all exactly the same in my book: all corporate-cock sucking, lowest-common-denominator, opportunistic morons. Personally, I can ignore them, as I've got my own type of music to distract me, but ...they get youth a bad name, for fuck's sake!

In summation, yes - they are the orthodoxy ...and the worst kind, too: conformity masquerading as non-conformity.


(* - edit: Preaching to the choir, I know!)

We have a 'music glut', in short.

I don't know if it's a glut but there's sure a lot more around than there used to be.

This struck me when Taylor mentioned I seem to have been at most of the big festivals in the 60s. I thought about that a bit, and the fact that others of my vintage around here, the late lamented Surfs Up and Adams House Cat had been at many of the same events. The truth is it was relatively easy because there really weren't that many of them. Fewer festivals, fewer concerts, fewer bands, fewer records. If you were London/home counties based back then you really could pretty much cover the waterfront. It's taken me a while to come terms with where and how to even find stuff I might like these days, and I've old music-loving friends who are totally clueless.