Most of Carole King's output (with the exception of about one and a half of her best-known albums, I'll grant) derives from her Brill Building background.

James Blunt and David Gray have everything about them that is implied by that horrible seventies term "troubadour". The precious introspection, the horrid wet-lettuce limpness - they're prime personifications of singer-songwriter tosserdom.

to Wyatt: I guess the style of music they are playing dominates over the fact they write and sing their own songs. You could put Bob Marley into the same category.

What about Bruce Springsteen and Neil Young? I'm not overly keen on either but I wouldn't classify them as tossers.

Spearmint Rhino wrote:

QUOTE:
If someone plays an acoustic guitar and goes by their real name, my default rule is Tosser Until Proven Innocent.

But that lets 'Get Cape, Wear Cape, Fly' off the hook and he is definitely a tosser.

evilC wrote:

QUOTE:
Spearmint Rhino wrote:

QUOTE:
If someone plays an acoustic guitar and goes by their real name, my default rule is Tosser Until Proven Innocent.

It's not just guitars:

I thought this photo was of the singer from That Petrol Emotion.

Just checked the wikipedia entry on the subject and can't believe I've completely missed out Brazillian music on this subject. From the past to the present Brazil has produced an enormous amount of amazing singer songwriters, Caetano Veloso undoubtedly being the greatest but add to him Gilberto Gil, Tom Zé, Chico Buarque, Milton Nascimento and Adrianna Calcanhotto to name but a few.

steveeeeeeeee wrote:

QUOTE:
to Wyatt: I guess the style of music they are playing dominates over the fact they write and sing their own songs. You could put Bob Marley into the same category.

What about Bruce Springsteen and Neil Young? I'm not overly keen on either but I wouldn't classify them as tossers.

They both rock so I think that makes them OK. Anyway, The Boss is my girlfriend's favourite so he can't possibly be a tosser.

i like john k. samson, except now he is in what you would consider a "beat combo".

Loudon Wainwright is a personal favourite. Just this morning while listening to him, I mused upon the fact that the last time I broke up with a woman, some 14 years before this current time, I was listening to his stuff post break-up then too.

I also found out recently that his new album will be new versions of some of his earliest stuff. Check out the track listing:

1. Black Uncle Remus
2. Saw Your Name In The Paper
3. School Days
4. Drinking Song
5. Motel Blues
6. Muse Blues
7. New Paint
8. Be Careful There's A Baby In The House
9. Needless To Say
10. Movies Are A Mother To Me
11. Say That You Love Me
12. Old Friend
13. Man Who Couldn't Cry

Can't wait to hear it!

So basically we have arrived at a point where the label "singer-songwriter" can be applied to all kinds of people who write songs and sing. It clearly is not an identifable, definable or homogeneous category like, say, heavy metal, reggae or soul. So it is meaningless; it has to be meaningless if by virtue of its title you can stick in one drawer Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell as well as James Blunt and David Gray and that dreadlocked herbert, and anyone in between.

Seeing as there is no way that Blunt and, say, Rosie Thomas belong in one category (and wait till imp hears that people here are trying to do that; the poor man will have a coronary), and seeing as there seem to be no qualifying definitions, what do we call people who write songs and sing them?

I'm with WE on his exemptions, plus Springsteen and Young, and I'd like to add John Hiatt to the list. He's recently joined my "every time they come to town" list.

See, I have no difficulty whatever in finding a great deal of commonality in what all the people in G-Man's list set out to do. Thing is, I've never denied that that some of them produce work that I find worth my while, whereas others - the vast majority - are irredemably sick-making.

kd lang is a singer songwriter. I dont think she's a tosser (although she has tosser-attributes, like singing her hits in different arrangements, to stop the crowd singing along). In fact I think she is rather wonderful.

I certainly wouldnt call kd lang a tosser within earshot.

Isn't it a wee bit of a generalisation?

What, my original assertion? No, I don't think so. You see, I'm very old and I've heard enough to make my judgement.

And I really mean I've heard enough.

Andy C wrote:

QUOTE:
What, my original assertion? No, I don't think so. You see, I'm very old and I've heard enough to make my judgement.

And I really mean I've heard enough.

Fair enough. What is it that makes them so tosserish though?

Trite material. Hackneyed clichés. Faux-introspection with a lack of genuine insight. Inability to transport the listener anywhere outside their unheated garret/cold-water flat/working-town bedroom. Tendency to emulate their narrow range of influences rather than break new ground. Bad hair.