Always with the tribute act.

It strikes me that AFCL has become progressively more 'cuddly' with Big Liverpool as the project's developed. There appeared to be a bit more of an anti-corporate kick in their early pronouncements, but since Big Liverpool (perhaps shrewdly) started to make a public point of endorsing it all, things have become a bit more blurred.

That one was for you EIM, I'm allowed it twice in two years, no?

It's a valid point though, If AFC Liverpool's reasons for existing are different from FCUM's and about wanting to watch some affordable grass roots football why not just watch one of dozens of sides local to you/your League club that are already there and could do with the help?

HS - Unusual as it seems to be on here I’m one of these people who has trouble supporting more than one team, those who can more power to them. So to actually care enough about ‘another team’ I’d need to have some connection, a reason to care. With the money in the EPL I simply wondered why they don’t all have ‘affordable alternatives’ (not my term, I quoted it), I’m not necessarily supporting it, just asking the question. I sometimes go and watch the reserves and the under 19s, I don’t think of them as tribute acts. If there is a market, and ‘masters’ football suggests there is, then it seems odd that the richer clubs haven’t got into it.

Harri Saer wrote:

QUOTE:
That one was for you, I'm allowed it twice in two years, no?

No.

Harri Saer wrote:

QUOTE:
It's a valid point though, If AFC Liverpool's reasons for existing are different from FCUM's and about wanting to watch some affordable grass roots football why not just watch one of dozens of sides local to you/your League club that are already there and could do with the help?

For them it's to do with not wanting to leave the big, lovely, Liverpool family. They want to support THEIR (this is key, its also why people who say 'why don't they go watch the reserves/youth?' don't 'get' it) team under the Liverpool banner, wearing red, with other Liverpool fans, and sing Liverpool songs, and cheerfully rob local shop keepers all in the name of Liverpool.

That seems silly.

Aye. But football is, isn't it?

Oh yes, very.

So it's a DIY tribute act?

FC Karaoke?

I think that this notion of the "tribute act" is the fundamental difference between FCUM and AFCL. I don't get that sense with FCUM - they're doing things, laudably, entirely on their own terms. In contrast, I'm left feeling rather queasy at the love in between AFCL and Big Liverpool. AFC Liverpool provides a decent get-out clause for Big Liverpool - they don't have to do anything towards lowering ticket prices any more. They just have to point them in the direction of the NWCL and a club that will never seriously challenge them in any way. They've chewed up and spat out the protest element of it already.

I like to think of AFCL as the Minipops of the football world - cute and adorable, but oh, so wrong.

twohundredpercent wrote:

QUOTE:
I think that this notion of the "tribute act" is the fundamental difference between FCUM and AFCL. I don't get that sense with FCUM - they're doing things, laudably, entirely on their own terms. In contrast, I'm left feeling rather queasy at the love in between AFCL and Big Liverpool. AFC Liverpool provides a decent get-out clause for Big Liverpool - they don't have to do anything towards lowering ticket prices any more. They just have to point them in the direction of the NWCL and a club that will never seriously challenge them in any way. They've chewed up and spat out the protest element of it already.

Amen.

It always seemed to me that AFCL were doing it, out of jealousy of FCUM more than anything else.

Now, LFC have priced their fans out and instead of finding ways to give their own fans affordable methods, they've decided to patronise them by pointing them to the NWCL. If LFC really gave a shit, they could push the reserves nights - get bigger crowds, better atmosphere, give the younger players the opportunity to play in a matchday style atmosphere. But there is a danger they could make a loss on it, so they'll fob it off as well.

AFCL are also a dangerous precedent in a way that FCUM are not. If AFCL works, howlong before the Combined Counties league has an AFC Arsenal and an AFC Chelsea? How long before the Blue Square North/South, Northern, Southern and Isthmian Leagues are full of AFCL-alikes, instead of Guiseley, Boston, Havant & Waterlooville and Halesowen Town? Isn't enough that the BRCs have creamed enough from the Football League & Premier League, whithout their sanctioned alternatives creaming off non-league too? Maybe Rafa's wish of 'B' teams will come in via the back door.

Whilst I agree with the fundamental differences that have been identified between AFCL and FCUM, there's also a fundamental similarity which neither shares with AFC Wimbledon, in that the club that the fans have stopped supporting is still there.

This makes me wonder how many FCUM fans will be in this forever? What if Man U move into more acceptable ownership at some point in the future and/or economic conditions drive ticket prices down? Will a chunk of FCUMs fanbase drift back to OT?

I'm not sure that the creation of Big Club AFCs is a threat to traditional non-league sides. How many Droylsden or Salford City fans have started following FCUM? I'd say it was a positive thing as it gets fans who would traditionally sneer at 'non league shite' to start enjoying the game at that level.

bewaldeth wrote:

QUOTE:
I'm not sure that the creation of Big Club AFCs is a threat to traditional non-league sides. How many Droylsden or Salford City fans have started following FCUM? I'd say it was a positive thing as it gets fans who would traditionally sneer at 'non league shite' to start enjoying the game at that level.

I've heard say that Salford City hate FCUM, but have no way to corroborate this other than hearsay. Of course EIM would know best, but a friend of mine was boasting about a bunch of anti-FCUM Reds (of which he was one) planning to go down to the Salford vs. FCUM cup tie, in the Salford end. (Obviously the fella's a bit of a bonehead). I'm not sure if this is the increased participation you're talking about..

I can't help but think a lot of the antipathy towards FCUM is because people link them to Big United, no matter what the circumstances of their founding (like the Tamworth forum EIM linked to, all about FCUM being banned Big United hooligans.) Probably should have picked a better name, one without both the words 'Manchester' and 'United' in it, perhaps.

If my hunch is right, AFC Liverpool will have it