He's still the daddy.

There's quite a difference betweeen claiming (a) he's gone to shit altogether, (b) he's still the best player in the world in his position, week in week out, and (c) he's still frequently excellent, though others now definitely fill the role better, including Mascherano.

You seem to be imputing (a) to Dalliance, where it's fairly clear he meant (c), as any sane observant person would. Conversely, your own view appears to border on (b), which would just be silly. It's no disrespect at all to Makelele to suggest that, at 34, he's no longer quite the player he was.

No he isn't, but he's still vying for the position of best in the world and I think he's a far better player than Mascherano, who needs a few more years before he can claim to be as good as the master.

Well, that's an argument we can have. You accept, though, that saying dalliance "doesn't rate" Makelele is without foundation?

I just wanted to be provocative.

Well look what you've done: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/7666168

QUOTE:
Dalliance doesn't rate Makelele. That alone is enough to render his contributions null and void.

I'd me more inclined to say "Phoebe thinks Cesc Fabregas is the best player in the world, bar none. That alone is enough to render his contributions null and void."

Although that might be thought of as a cheap jibe, which, as we know, Phoebe hates.

Everytime me and Toro have a disagreement, there you are chipping in with a dig at me, Hof. That's another fantastic reason to going back to ignoring Toro.

I'm sorry (really, I am), and the fact that toro is involved is a coincidence really (except possibly in that his presence seems to bring out the worst in you) but this really was priceless:

QUOTE:
QUOTE:
(ignore this)

That's your best ever post, toro.

garcia wrote:

QUOTE:
is there an outstanding prospect at ipswich we've not heard about yet?


Cheap jibe there.

But it was really just a riposte to Liquidator's post. I should probably have left out the last sentence. You should be flattered that I read your blog.

Anyway, I shouldn't really get involved in this as I'm not sure I even fully grasp the (seemingly important) difference between a player's distribution skills and a player's passing skills.

Mascherano can pass, but Makelele can pass, and he's got a transit van

Toro doesn't bring the worst out in me at all. I treat people as they treat others, so if my posts towards Toro look a little petulant, abusive and childish, there's a good reason.

As for the "cheap jibe" post, that's because you know as well as I do that Garcia is capable of coming up with better responses than that, when a player's ability is questioned.

QUOTE:
Everytime me and Toro have a disagreement, there you are chipping in with a dig at me, Hof. That's another fantastic reason to going back to ignoring Toro.

I didn't take Hofzinser to be toro's minder in any way. Perhaps people are having digs at you for reasons not related to toro at all, Phoebe.

Paris St-Germain? Jesus christ, is he mad?

well phoebe, regarding the players you mentioned:

makelele was the best player of this type in the world for a few seasons - he's the only one of the players you mentioned with similar timing when it comes to taking the ball off players. he's also an excellent passer, though frequently criticised for playing simple balls by people who don't really know what they're talking about. however this is all in the past. we shouldn't be arguing about whether makelele is as good as mascherano, it's more about whether he's as good as other former legends like dunga or nobby stiles.

then you mention flavour of the month senna, who's a good player, possibly in the same class as mascherano, but if i had to pick one i'd go with the 23 year old rather than the 32 year old. shouty gattuso's OK too but most of the stuff he does is for the gallery. i'm nonplussed by your claim that his passing is much better than JM's, as despite seeing the man play on many occasions, i can't remember a single pass he's played. he's spent his career winning the ball and giving it to pirlo. how this makes him a better distributor than JM is beyond me.

michael essien is a different kind of player altogether. the essien moment that sticks out in my mind is the run for chelsea's late equaliser away to barcelona in mourinho's last season - that showed him at his best. few other players have the power to pull something like that off - certainly not JM. but chelsea have been reluctant to use essien as the midfield holding player because his positioning isn't great and his tackling is more enthusiastic than effective (mascherano may play dirty at times, but his fouls are usually of the cynical makelele kind rather than the ultraviolence that results when essien gets his timing wrong). so grant preferred the wheezing, arthritic makelele in the position where discipline and tactical intelligence are all-important, and preferred to use essien's running power down the right side. shielding the defence, his energy and willingness to run can become weaknesses.

<clears throat>

yeah i saw that & changed it.