Belfast hosts some interesting derbies, not always massive crowds but generally heated. And I'm not joking when I tell you that their are derby games between (ex) mining villages in Scotland at semi-pro level that are as intense as anything you'll see in the UK and they get decent crowds.
Doesn't Moscow have some decent derbies and I imagine Israel could have some tense ones too. I'm for voting Barca v Real off the list altogether it feels like the rivalry between Coke and Pepsi these days.

Here is the Sporting - R. Oviedo derby game from 92/93: worth watching for the shot of the Oviedo fans going absolutely mental (1:14).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO1OuomrN8g&NR=1

Nico Rijnders wrote:

QUOTE:
Sam's Nacional vs. Penarol

Well... my actual Uruguayan team are Rampla Juniors, but sadly they weren't playing during my trip to Montevideo (which in fairness to them was in pre-season, and lasted for three nights). When I'm living in BA, though, I'll definitely be taking a trip across the river to see them in their clįsico, against Cerro. In fact I'd like to set up footballing trips for English-speaking groups to Montevideo, because the Centenario is absolutely amazing, and it'd be an excuse for me to go back to the city once every few months.

And thanks Phoebe. I knew the remaining one was going to be really bleeding obvious.

Antonio - I noticed MLS also promoting the DC United vs. Columbus Crew match as a 'superclasico' as well, on the strength of ex-River player Marcelo Gallardo lining up opposite ex-Boca player Guillermo Barros Schelotto.

And in fact I think I may have been making the Honduras / other Central American country thing up. I was sure I'd read about it in Wiki but it's not there now. Having said that it might well be on one of the more obscure sites I've come across, so don't rule it out entirely...

Back in London, there's also the fact that matches between teams from the same city aren't necessarily their most 'locally' charged. Palace v Brighton is historically more charged with a derby rivalry than Palace v QPR. And Orient v Barnet's never had a fraction of the 'local derby' vibe that Orient v Southend has. Social and demographic factors have had a part to play here in quite an interesting way (to nerds like me anyhow)

Bohemian FC v Shamerock Rovers.

Glentoran v Linfield.

Cliftonville v Linfield

Earith v Bluntisham is the glaring omission.

Seems to me that the biggest rivalries exist between clubs which are in some ways equals - both sets of fans have to see the match(es) as the most important game of the season. This is why Barcelona vs Real Madrid is such a huge fixture (along with the historical and political reasons), and why the biggest derby in Britain is (and probably always will be) Rangers vs Celtic.

It is also why, the advent of the big split in English football has seen some of the traditional derbies lessen in importance. Liverpool Everton is no longer the fixture it once was, because for Liverpool fans it's not the biggest game of the season (they are far more interested in the Man Utd game). Likewise Arsenal Tottenham. These days it seems that Arsenal vs Man Utd is a very big game which has built up a deal of controversial incidents and "history" over the last ten years. It never used to be an important game in this regard.

Because of this I would say that the biggest two derbies in England are Newcastle vs Sunderland and the Sheffield derby. Both sets of fans (I suspect) look out for that match when the fixture lists are released, and both sets of fans focus their season and their interest around that game, and in both areas the build up to the game is tangible and starts about a month prior to the match.

[I love the criticism of World Soccer by the way. Fancy a magazine purportedly about football choosing not to feature Cristiano Ronaldo's breakfast habits! Incredible. No matter that it occupies a place in the market that no other publication does, if it's about World Soccer it should really be covering the Premier league in copious detail, and so not be any different from everybody else. Perhaps [i]Songlines[/i] ought to cover Kylie Minogue and Amy Winehouse in depth too. I mean after all, they are, technically, "World Music".]

It is also why, the advent of the big split in English football has seen some of the traditional derbies lessen in importance. Liverpool Everton is no longer the fixture it once was, because for Liverpool fans it's not the biggest game of the season (they are far more interested in the Man Utd game). Likewise Arsenal Tottenham. These days it seems that Arsenal vs Man Utd is a very big game which has built up a deal of controversial incidents and "history" over the last ten years. It never used to be an important game in this regard.

They can easily be classed as big games obviously, but the 'history' of them is helped by a willing, over-anticipatory media who almost help give these events the aura of a derby (and so convince the more simple-minded Big Four fans that they really are genuine derbies). You can say that they're still not important games - are all those clashes that Sky screen as 'Slam Dunk Punchy Weekend' really significant turning points to a season's outcome? Most of them turn out to be real cowpats where the occasion rather than the game is the only notable aspect.

It's all obvious, I know.

Re: If Real Madrid v Barcelona is considered such a big deal because of the Catalans resistance against the central government, then I would think that Real Madrid v one of the Basque teams would generate even more passion. After all if these clubs are considered bearers of the national conflicts then an armed conflict which lasted for decades must beat the Catalans more subtle approach during and after the Franco regime (though I could be wrong here - my knowledge of Spanish history is quite limited).

So is the stature of Real Madrid v Barcelona over e.g. Real Madrid v Athletic Bilbao more a case of two really big clubs who regularly compete for the same trophies as opposed to wider historical reasons?

Someone must know.

To take iton another level, what about international derbies/rivalries? A few initially spring to mind:

England v Scotland
Germany v Holland
Greece v Turkey
Argentina v Brazil

(I also hear that Luxembourg v Litchtenstein can be a bit spicy !!)

Bobski wrote:

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To take iton another level, what about international derbies/rivalries?

Wrexham v Chester

The Basque-Real Madrid matches are considered to be "special", especially Athletic-Madrid and especially in the Basque Country, but they get less national and international attention than Barca-Madrid because the relative decline of the Basque clubs over the last 20 years has meant that there generally isn't as much at stake in sporting or economic terms.

Barca-Madrid is what it is now because the two clubs have come to dominate Spanish football in terms of trophies, money and number of supporters, a situation that is amplified by the Madrid-centric nature of Marca and AS and the Barca-centric nature of Sport, Mundo Deportivo and Antenna 3 and the increasing amount of interest in those two clubs outside of Spain. The (largely historical) political aspects add a certain spice to the rivalry, especially because they are thought (at least on the Barca side) to have resulted in noteworthy benefits for the Merengues on the field, but they aren't the central reason for the match being "big".

It still can't touch the Betis-Sevilla derby for atmosphere, though.

Donald has hit upon the crucial point, I think, that the two teams involved must be more or less equals for the rivalry to be truly fierce (or at least fiercest) in both directions.

It's exactly why Liverpool-Everton or Arsenal-Spurs don't belong in the top 10 above any more (although historically they would have a case), and why the Manchester derby hasn't even had a look in. Liverpool-Man Utd is more important for both sets of fans than their intra-city derbies because they are of about equal stature and are fighting for the same prizes.

And with regards to Captain K's point, I would argue that it is indeed the equal status of Real Madrid and Barcelona that gives their matches more of a frisson than Real Madrid v Atheltic Bilbao, which is historically much more one-sided.

The fact that, for better or for worse, the likes of Barcelona-Real Madrid and Celtic-Rangers also have a political element is what gives these matches that extra intensity that sees them high up in the top 10.

I love the criticism of World Soccer by the way. Fancy a magazine purportedly about football choosing not to feature Cristiano Ronaldo's breakfast habits!

that's not the criticism. The criticism is that because he plays in england, World soccer ignores him. If he played in spain he'd be on the front cover nearly every week. The example I illustrated was that in that magazine comparison. Every magazine in europe thought he was in the team of the month because he scored 7 goals, except for them. There is plenty of magazines that focus too much on the minutiae of premiership life and they are just as annoying, but World soccer pretends to hold itself to a higher standard.

ursus arctos wrote:

QUOTE:
The Basque-Real Madrid matches are considered to be "special", especially Athletic-Madrid and especially in the Basque Country ...

Is this because Atletico started by Basque students as an Athletic Bilbao Supporters' Club in the capital city?