Why did BATE go automatically into Group H, when there was a place in Group C also available?

It's something to do with the way the fixtures work out. If Donetsk had gone in that group then they'd have played their matches on the same nights as Kiev, and UEFA like to have teams from the same country playing on different nights.

Group F seems tough. Ursus won't be happy with that, I don't think.

Why are Real Madrid still among the top teams? Shouldn't Roma be in there, and Real in the second tier?

I do this every year whne we draw an Italian side, as I neither know nor care anything about Italian football:

But for all of you who do, could anyone fill me in on how well Juventus did last year in Serie A and how well they'll do in Group H. With them and Zenit in the group I'm genuinely scared.

I have to say, Real Madrid's continued presence in the top seeds baffles me too. They've not reached a semi-final since 02/03, six seasons ago, and haven't even made the last eight since Monaco dumped them out in 2004.

Anyone would think UEFA were putting them in the top bracket because they're powerful and have loads of money -- but I don't believe that for a second.

But isn't the seeding also based on how well you are doing domestically? If so then being Champions for the last 2 years has got to count for something, no?

Surely if it's taking domestic stuff into account then Liverpool would be somewhere down around Pot 3.

There is no way Real Madrid should be top seeds with a record of one quarter-final appearance in the last five seasons. Their CL record in recent times is comparable to a team like Celtic or Lyon.

Juve came in third last season, 13 points off Inter. If I were a Madrid fan I'd be worried about them, they're awfully scrappy. If I were a Manchester United or Chelsea fan, I'd be somewhat less worried.

Madrid are in the top pot because the seedings use a very complicated equation which takes into account success in the competition over the last five seasons, domestic success in the same period, and how much of the TV market they'll deliver if they're allowed into the knockout stages.

Really, the rest of us should be happy they allow our teams to play in the competition for a chance to loan their trophy off them for a year.

Cheers Bruno. Who came second out of interest? And have Juve signed anyone this summer?

I genuinely don't know how the seedings work. I have a vague idea that they're on some sort of 5 year rolling programme and therefore Liverpool, having got to 2 finals within the last 5 years, are going to be all right for a while. But I really don't know, Champions League seedings are always a mystery to me.

Having said all that, although we probably don't belong in Pot 1, you've got to admit, it's a real bitch of a group.

Roma were runners-up in Italy last year, Jon. Inter almost collapsed at the end--they were running away with it in January and February, and it came down to the last two weekends of the season to see if they would hang on.

Really, the rest of us should be happy they allow our teams to play in the competition for a chance to loan their trophy off them for a year.

Well said, Sam. The frustration at not winning la decima, well it's just getting annoying now. Come on people, stop trying so hard and let us have our trophy back.

Thanks Inca. I'm sure I'll be having this same conversation with you (or Bruno or ursus) the same time next year.

What a boring draw for Liverpool = no Euro aways for me this autumn as been to Eindhoven (it's rubbish), Marseille looks like a sh*t place to visit and I am going to Madrid next spring anyway. Thanks, UEFA, you c*nts.

Maybe, Spartak can get something more fun tomorrow.

I believe Juve's most promising signing was to be Amauri (a Brazilian forward) from Palermo. Will be interesting to see how he does, he can be electrifying.

Why are Real Madrid still among the top teams? Shouldn't Roma be in there, and Real in the second tier?

The seeding on the Champions league goes on your uefa coefficient which is mostly based on how you have done in Uefa competitions over the last five Years. Real madrid are tenth on the coefficient, and would be a second seed if either AC Milan, or Sevilla had qualified.

this bit in the guardian minute by minute account gave me a bit of a giggle.

They're now holding the Club Defender of the Year award. They're wasting my time, I tells ya. John Terry wins it! Hahahahahahahahaha. Oddly, when he comes up to collect the award, Ricardo Carvalho isn't right by his side holding his hand and guiding him through it.

I mean really.... John terry? Frank Lampard? Lampard wasn't even the best midfielder in his team. Who was picking these awards? the readers of Shoot?