I'm with Harry, all contact took place outside the box although, of course, Lahm fell into the box.

There was talk of it being on the line but I couldn't see that it was

Disagree (and so did the Italian pundit/ref). I think blameless has it right with this:

"The point I was making was that Sabri's left foot was planted outside the box (making it look as if it might not have been a penalty), but Sabri's right knee caught Lahm on the thigh, inside the penalty area. Thus, penalty."

Though the Italian pundit ref claimed that the real problem was that the ref didn't whistle for the initial foul on Lahm (which was outside the area).

The shocking thing was that it was a no call. Had he given Germany a free kick on the edge of the area, they would have bitched and we would be arguing over the locus of the foul, but the absence of any whistle at all was just beyond the pale.

I agree with your last para UA but are you saying there was a double foul on Lahm, one outside the box and a second inside?

Yes, though they were so close in time as to be difficult to separate.

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but the absence of any whistle at all was just beyond the pale

A strong contender there for the most irrelevant Ireland-referring post of the tournament? ;)

I don't buy the "first foul outside the box, later foul in the box, no penalty" argument, surely the ref plays advantage while the player continues to progress and blows for the foul when they can't do so anymore.

But from my viewing, the whole Sabri/Lahm contact occurred outside the area. Which was just about the only defensive thing Sabri got right in 2 games. Didn't Altintop play at RB in the games before that? Didn't Turkey think that bringing a right-back to the tournament might be a good plan? Is it the revenge of Keith Curle and Euro 92?

Germany are the team England could be if we ever got our fucking technique sorted out.

Ad Hoc, by "morally" I mean that the overwhelming cynicism of the offence, and the sheer stupidity of committing it right on the line of the box, were beyond belief.

That the ref could decide to give no foul at all was incredible. And, like Blameless, I'm not convinced that it was outside the area either. I'd have to see it again though. But Germany shrugged it off and won the game anyway, so it's ultimately not that big a deal.

I thought Lahm had an uncharacteristically bad game apart from taking his goal well. He was caught out a few times in the first half and Sabri skinned him for Turkey's equaliser.

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the overwhelming cynicism of the offence, and the sheer stupidity of committing it right on the line of the box

Doesn't one tend to contradict the other?

No. It was a bad foul committed at a time when he did not actually need to go flying in like that, and he took an incredible chance by doing it in the area of the pitch that he did.

Hieronymus of Hesselink wrote:

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I thought Lahm had an uncharacteristically bad game apart from taking his goal well. He was caught out a few times in the first half and Sabri skinned him for Turkey's equaliser.

Though apparently he was UEFA MotM, for his assist and goal obviously.

Provisional selections for Team of the Tournament defenders are proving very hard and the full-backs at least are probably going to be in for their attacking game rather than consistent defending.

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Germany are the team England could be if we ever got our fucking technique sorted out.

and Brazil are the team that Wales would be if we had skill, technique, fitness, a yellow kit and some of the best players in the world.

See also, if my gran had balls, she would be my grandad.

Obviously if both were still alive

Be fair, we've got a yellow kit.

We've got nice beaches as well.

Hold the front page, the World Cup is ours!!

Have we still got a yellow kit? I haven't checked to see what today's kit is?

Indeed, I thought the yellow was gone with the Kappa contract (but am loathe to question Harry's precision on such things).

Ah, good point, the current kit lasts officially until July 1 I think. We don't know what colour the new Champion away one will be, granted.