I thought Toni did well in the WC.

You need to see his performance through aiatl's eyes . . .

ursus arctos wrote:

QUOTE:
"There seems to be a real lack of pace in that team, and not a whole heap of attacking strength from midfield."

In other words, much like the team that won the World Cup.

Well kind of. Just that each member of the back four has been fairly shite since winning the world cup, and It is very unlikely that Italy are going to win a second consecutive tournament with only the back half of a football team.

Toni managed only two goals against a shite ukrainean team. Which wasn't that special compared to the hype surrounding his 745 goals for Fiorentina. He could actually do the business this time though, now that he's a proper famous footballer.

Toni did hit more woodwork than Joseph during the tournament and led the line very well.

His all round contribution was impressive I thought. I certainly wouldn't dismiss two goals against Ukraine so easily, in a QF, too. They were coming on strong before his goals.

I am not really following the: the stage was too big for him, he could do the business now as he's a proper famous footballer argument and I have to assume you are joking.

I don't see Italy reaching the final. But then I seldom do, and they often do.

I thought that at the World cup he was a little clumsy and a little off the pace. He was the european golden boot, and it didn't really work out for him. to be fair thoug, he had very little big game experience and will probably be a lot less overawed now.

and as for the ukraine, they were just utter shite. That ukraine switzerland game will live on in infamy right beside Ireland Norway or Italy norway or Ireland egypt or Ireland holland.

He is a little clumsy at times, I would agree.

But he did crash the ball against the woodwork of Ghana and Australia and France, and scored what I still think was an on-side header in the final.

I also see that he may be better still given his experiences of the past 2 years.

I definitely have him as one of three irreplaceables (for me) which I didn't in 2006.

I am sure Donadoni won't, but I wouldn't be adverse to a midfield of De Rossi-Pirlo-Perrotta which might offer a greater goal threat from midfield.

What no Rino? I would seriously consider it. Though with Cannavaro out Gattuso may be too important a personality/heatbeat of the team to leave out.

QUOTE:
In other words, much like the team that won the World Cup.

You can make a solid argument about Italy 2006's run as the easiest path and least convincing world cup win in the modern era.

Australia (1-0 on a phantom PK call), the Ukraine, Germany in extra time and France in PKs under dramatic circumstances.

Let's see how they do the next few weeks...

Two years on and the grapes are still sour, hein?

Though one does have to admit that the opposing finalists were embarassingly weak [insert smiley thing]

On verra.

I liked Ireland-Holland '94, aiatl, but I agree with the rest of everything you were saying.

Not only was Swiss-Ukraine horrible, but it even had the worst penalty shootout of all time. Even worse than Juve-Milan '03.

jason voorhees wrote:

QUOTE:
Not only was Swiss-Ukraine horrible, but it even had the worst penalty shootout of all time. Even worse than Juve-Milan '03.

Relive the magic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5fKlxQ7mQc

linus wrote:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:
In other words, much like the team that won the World Cup.

You can make a solid argument about Italy 2006's run as the easiest path and least convincing world cup win in the modern era.

Seriously you couldn't and haven't.

Australia (1-0 on a phantom PK call), the Ukraine, Germany in extra time and France in PKs under dramatic circumstances.

Ghana, USA and Czech Republic was widely viewed as the toughest group after the Dutch/Arg/Ivory Coast one.

Australia: pen in my opinion, though I can see why some might think not. As impt in terms of your weak/desperate argument Italy played for 70 mins with 10 men and were still comfortably the better team and deserved to win I thought, esp once Totti came on for a 15-20 min cameo/masterclass.

Ukraine. yes should beat them and except for possibly England the weakest team left in at that stage.

Germany in their citadel? On an amazing high. Only in ET. Breathtaking.

France? yes give you that one they are tosh. Hells bells almost a bye to the trophy.

Let's see how they do the next few weeks...

Isn't the WC safely in a vault in Italy somewhere. Nowt to see in terms of the WC.

I'd like them to win the Euros in Aus/Switz but only if like in Germany they thoroughly deserve it.

Priceless. I am so disappointed I wasn't on OTF in the summer of 2006

Thanks Inca, I needed a good laugh.

Put the distances away from the keeper of the first and third shots of the Swiss together and it still wouldn't have been a hard shot to save.

And WTF was that tounge-wag before the 1st shot ?

See, that's why penalty shootouts are an art and science. I can tell you I'd teach all of my players DO NOT wag your tounge before a shot.

OK martlets, if you are going to argue that the Australian penalty was a good call, we really shouldn't have any debate because there is no point, but I'll bite.

"Germany in their citadel" got trounced 5-1 by England, 3-0 by France. You'd have to go back to the 19th century for such levels of extreme mediocrity by the Mannschaft. That was not Franz or Lothar's team...

Advancing in their first stage group is hardly a great feat, the format is forgiving as you basically have to finish in the top two with three good teams.

The soft path played very well to Italy's strengths of consistency and defense (and a good dose of Italian cynicism, as in knowing how to earn a PK when the defender isn't fouling and gauding opponents into losing their tempers), they do have a good ability to edge out successive average to above average teams.

UA: that final wasn't quite a Seville-level trauma, but hmmm, ouais, it's still not sitting well.

Linus, it's ok; I cried after Seville.

As you weren't here martlets, you will have missed the spectacular post-final meltdown of our friend linus in 2006. It was pretty much clear to everyone but him that Italy were the best team in the tournament (with the possible exception of Argentina who blew it).

It was a brilliant thread, but you don't necessarily have to treat with any seriousness the idea that La France all but swept to a glorious and totally deserved World Cup triumph, only to be undone at the final hurdle by the perfidious Materazzi.