It was only a poor choice because Italy's perfectly decent attacking players collectively decided not to show up. It's not as though Italy were so negative that they played like they were down a man or anything. They were perfectly willing to get forward when the opportunity presented itself, but the players supposed to be actual threats (Cassano, di Natale, del Piero, Perrotta) didn't turn out to be all that threatening. And still, as with every game I've ever seen the Italians play, they might have scored.

You're getting positively Colm-esque...

"Colm-esque" is lost on me, please explain so that I can better serve you.

The real name of a regular poster who spends his life pointing out that his particular football clubs haven't actually lost, just that the result is wrong...

Gangster Octopus wrote:

QUOTE:
The real name of a regular poster who spends his life pointing out that his particular football clubs haven't actually lost, just that the result is wrong...

Oh, well, you aren't paying attention to what I actually wrote then. I'm already on record! Italy lost! Here's my eminently judicious assessment from yesterday, in full:

QUOTE:
I won't go as far as saying Spain deserved to win or Italy deserved to lose tonight, but that was a fair enough result. Casillas came up big (the save on Camoranesi's shot that is, that was Italy's goal).

Donadoni, having started the tournament with the new, attacking Azzurri, hastily reverted to the Italy of old. Kinda nice to see they still know how to defend, they rarely looked too troubled against a very good attacking side. (Of course Spain were going to get their chances, but they didn't exactly convince with all those 30-40 yard shots.)

Too many disappointing performances from the Italians to count. Still a good team, though. Clearly wasn't their year.

I mean, my pro-Italian bias is virtually undetectable in that post. :)

QUOTE:
You're not seriously comparing the way Italy have played in this tournament, over their four games, to the way Greece played in 2004?

Not at all, I'm talking about how they played in one game last night against a side whose own defence has yet to prove itself, and your defence of it as making the best of limited resources, given Italy's dearth of available skillful attacking players. In last night's game (if not their others in this tournament), Italy essentially adopted the same reasoning as a much less talented Greece did throughout Euro2004.

I think the Italian players broadly "failed to turn up" because it's very hard to do anything when you only have 3 players in the opposition half.

E10 Rifle wrote:

QUOTE:
Not at all, I'm talking about how they played in one game last night against a side whose own defence has yet to prove itself, and your defence of it as making the best of limited resources, given Italy's dearth of available skillful attacking players.

Spain's defense may not have yet proved itself, but then neither had Italy's offense. Going up against a team that had scored, what, 8 goals, to Italy's 1, I'd say their approach made some sense. Especially considering some of the 8 were pretty great goals.

QUOTE:
In last night's game (if not their others in this tournament), Italy essentially adopted the same reasoning as a much less talented Greece did throughout Euro2004.

Well, that's the point. Their other games in this tournament didn't turn up all that much, which is why they adopted the reasoning they did for the Spain match.

Italy's play was negative but they made Spain look pretty ordinary, that's the same Spain that hammered the Russians earlier with players upfront like Villa and Torres, both very average yesterday. Italy was also very weak upfront. Put those two elements together and most coaches would have gone for that approach which is no different than that of a Walter Smith or even Premiership coaches of smaller sides.

As for the cheating and gamemanship, it is endemic and one of its most feted practionner was practically the main selling point of the English media to convince people to keep an eye on Euro2008.

I'm not holding my breath as to how the Shearers of this world will react when England plays the same way and snatches a 1-0 away in Zagreb, I had a taster of it when the wonderful Zenit tried to break Rangers down...

Fair enough, Italy did not set out to entertain the neutrals, they never really looked convincing during this Euro and a 1/4 exit is about right as Spain, despite not going anywhere near to fulfil the hype we heard about them, were better.

Purves Grundy wrote:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:
'We'll have a heavenly time alone', said Sebastian and when next morning, while I was shaving, I saw from my bathroom window Julia, with luggage at her back, drive from the forecourt and disappear at the hill's crest, without a backward glance, I felt a sense of liberation and peace such as I was to know years later when, after a night of unrest, the sirens sounded the 'All Clear'.

A couple of proper nouns replaced and you'd have exactly how I feel right now. Clever man, Waugh.

Eat that you despicable, gutless worms. Your entire philosophy encapsulated by the behaviour of di Natale, rolling back onto the pitch to prevail on the referee to interrupt a Spanish counter attaack so your non-existent knee injusry could get attention. You missed your penalty like a useless big div. I hope you cry yourself to sleep tonight.

"The army that stays within its fortifications has already lost the battle" said Napoleon, and tonight gave a perfect illustration of that. World Champions? World Champion crybaby scaredy-cats, perhaps.

Ha.

ha.

ha.

Tee hee. You got it real bad.

Italy are simply not good enough, in terms of personnel or outlook.

This morning after the initial disappointment at having verily frightened the Spaniards into a stalemate the talk was of lunch plans.

We have moved on and we sincerely wish the same for you one day.

Should've taken off Toni towards the end of normal time, if not sooner, Quagliarella was waiting. Cassano tried to create, but movement was poor and other times it was just him. But still looked their most potent creative threat. As he has been throughout the tournament.

I've said before, Italy's full backs didn't push forward and provide the width and general attacking threat like they should've. Aquilani was average and Ambrosini did what he could. The midfield deffo missed Pirlo's distribution and flair whilst Gattuso's absence meant a drop in tempo and willingness to be a bit more adventerous.

Defence held out and Chiellini's built on his Serie A form this season and was Italy's best defender, probably. But it was nonetheless a makeshift defensive pairing (Panucci and Chiellini).

All the above played it's part in Italy not creating enough chances when going forward (though they did have the best chance of the game) and not showing enough ambition (thought an extra man supporting them when they attacked was required but never there). It wasn't the 'they played for penalties' and 'same old Italian catenaccio' the fools who base their opinion on stereotypes made it out to be. It was more the fact they couldn't do much when they got into the final third and were fearful of a counter attacking Spain side against their weakened midfield and defence.

No begrudging Spain and Donadoni never seemed up to the job. Italy were poor and Spain were less so. That's all there was to it.

This has been a great weekend. I didn't see any of the games but I left the beach on sunday afternoon just in time to catch the PKs.

Priceless.

Right, I should have posted this on the Spain v Italy thread prior to the QF, but somehow it seems appropriate to put it here now. It's what, Oddmund Vaagsholm, a relatively unknown Norwegian author and (part-time) footballer responded when asked about his thoughts on the upcoming quarter-finals, and it goes some way of explaining my ABI stance, I guess. Not that I necessarilly agree with all of it, but I found the Godfather analogy especially interesting.

**********************************

Starting with a footballing analysis, Italy are a more skillful version of Greece. Italy are Greece with drugs, bribes and exaggerated body language, including provocative and unelegant diving. Italy are the team who more than anyone cynically surpress any trace of improvisation, creativity, playfulness and uncontrolled initiative, precicely because those possibilities are there, ready to be taken advantage of. It reminds me of another great, who didn’t stand for anything ad hoc: Vito Corleone. In that scene in the first Godfather movie where he realizes that Sonny can never become a Don. In that scene where Sonny breaks into the conversation with another mafia family, and reveals his concerns, his nature, his human intuition, his uncontrolled temper. Whereupon Vito solemly tells him: Don’t let anyone outside the family know what you think ever again. That is Italian football to me. That is Andrea Pirlo to me. Concealed greatness. Supressed artistry. Sticky matter. Boring affair.

Italy will go out of the European Championships in the quarter final against Spain. We can hope for that, can’t we? Spain deserves this so much. They leave so much sawdust behind when the circus leaves town every single time. They call up the artists and the football lovers and the lightweights every time, and reveal their naked and naive faces every time. That’s why they don’t get a penalty when little David Silva is run over by the elephant Johan Elmander. Now obviously Spain could have done what Italy do, and played with the Spanish Marco Materazzi or the Spanish Luca Toni or the Spanish dog Gattuso, but Spain loves itself too much to drag the elephants to these tournaments. That’s why they’re weak. That's why they’re naive, that’s why they’re a bit pathetic, but it’s also why I support them. For the same reason I originally started supporting football teams: Because the potential to outplay another team and outclass them is manifestly there. Without this potential the magic of football disappears. Italy have forgotten this childhood, forgotten that football is about the chance to outplay your opponent and win by many goals, forgotten that also those of us *outside the family* want to see someone get comprehesively outplayed. Spain has the better memory.

Um, I guess that means Spain are Sonny Corleone. That does not bode well for tomorrow.

Otto Katz wrote:

QUOTE:
Right, I should have posted this on the Spain v Italy thread prior to the QF, but somehow it seems appropriate to put it here now. It's what, Oddmund Vaagsholm, a relatively unknown Norwegian author and (part-time) footballer responded when asked about his thoughts on the upcoming quarter-finals, and it goes some way of explaining my ABI stance, I guess. Not that I necessarilly agree with all of it, but I found the Godfather analogy especially interesting.

**********************************

Starting with a footballing analysis, Italy are a more skillful version of Greece. Italy are Greece with drugs, bribes and exaggerated body language, including provocative and unelegant diving. Italy are the team who more than anyone cynically surpress any trace of improvisation, creativity, playfulness and uncontrolled initiative, precicely because those possibilities are there, ready to be taken advantage of. It reminds me of another great, who didn’t stand for anything ad hoc: Vito Corleone. In that scene in the first Godfather movie where he realizes that Sonny can never become a Don. In that scene where Sonny breaks into the conversation with another mafia family, and reveals his concerns, his nature, his human intuition, his uncontrolled temper. Whereupon Vito solemly tells him: Don’t let anyone outside the family know what you think ever again. That is Italian football to me. That is Andrea Pirlo to me. Concealed greatness. Supressed artistry. Sticky matter. Boring affair.

Italy will go out of the European Championships in the quarter final against Spain. We can hope for that, can’t we? Spain deserves this so much. They leave so much sawdust behind when the circus leaves town every single time. They call up the artists and the football lovers and the lightweights every time, and reveal their naked and naive faces every time. That’s why they don’t get a penalty when little David Silva is run over by the elephant Johan Elmander. Now obviously Spain could have done what Italy do, and played with the Spanish Marco Materazzi or the Spanish Luca Toni or the Spanish dog Gattuso, but Spain loves itself too much to drag the elephants to these tournaments. That’s why they’re weak. That's why they’re naive, that’s why they’re a bit pathetic, but it’s also why I support them. For the same reason I originally started supporting football teams: Because the potential to outplay another team and outclass them is manifestly there. Without this potential the magic of football disappears. Italy have forgotten this childhood, forgotten that football is about the chance to outplay your opponent and win by many goals, forgotten that also those of us *outside the family* want to see someone get comprehesively outplayed. Spain has the better memory.

That's the biggest load of stereotypical twaddle i've heard in a long time about Italy.