The Horse wrote:

QUOTE:
Well constructed doesn't equal good, no. It's a plus, though, wouldn't you say?

I suppose, if you look at a hideous pair of shoes and applaud the stitching.

You're just being silly now.

A good deal of the pleasure of comic songs comes from the fluidity and ingenuity of their construction. If you insist on discounting that then, yes, what you're left with is quite a simple joke. I think it's a rather pleasing one, but then I don't have some sort of desperately overfunctioning Acceptable Subject Matter radar that goes mental if anything safe or middle-class or uncool is mentioned.

As Andy C points out, you seem to have got the Corrie spoof totally backwards. What you object to about Wood is exactly what she's having a pop at there. It's an affectionate pop, but still.

Oh, and the university interview sketch seems to me to be a rather good portrayal of hapless youth desperately trying to appear urbane and authoritative. I know I did that in my Oxford interview. Again it's quite a simple joke, but there's a bit more to it than Wood playing a stupid person who talks funny.

What sort of accent is Wallace in Wallace & Grommet supposed to have?

"too reliant on the supposed intrinsic amusingness of the way Northern Folk say "Wensleydale"

I don't know who Victoria Wood is but I think Wensleydale is a funny word in any any accent. That might just be because of its automatic association in my mind with the classic Cheese Shop sketch.

I had never heard of Victoria Wood either, but I found some videos on YouTube.

Victoria Wood sketches

The Horse wrote:

QUOTE:
You're just being silly now.

A good deal of the pleasure of comic songs comes from the fluidity and ingenuity of their construction. If you insist on discounting that then, yes, what you're left with is quite a simple joke. I think it's a rather pleasing one, but then I don't have some sort of desperately overfunctioning Acceptable Subject Matter radar that goes mental if anything safe or middle-class or uncool is mentioned.

Um, nor do I, you big weirdo. As you inadvertently acknowledged by mentioning Abigail's Party (of which I've gone on record as being a massive fan), I know that that sort of thing can be done well. But not by someone who solicits laughs by saying "Judith Chalmers" and "thermal vest". I mean, for fuck's sake.

(I don't perceive Victoria Wood as representing middle-class life as such, anyway, and I never mentioned the middle class on this thread, so I don't know why you keep going on about that.)

And I'm sorry, but the ingenuity of the construction leaves me dry. If the material's a load of headslappingly predictable shite, I don't care how clever the construction is.

Man, I've been thinking about this overnight, and I can't believe I'm having a debate with people who actually think Victoria Wood is any good. Stepping back from it all for a moment, this is insane. She's self-evidently a cultural atrocity.

QUOTE:
But not by someone who solicits laughs by saying "Judith Chalmers" and "thermal vest".

What's wrong with saying those things? This is what you can't explain and is therefore not self-evident at all. She's not getting laughs just by saying them without any context. They're serving a specific joke.

That Abigail's Party is good was the point. I'm Alan Partridge and Fawlty Towers are good as well. But a mentalist could criticise them based on his superficial dislike of their setting/vernacular/demographics, just as you're doing here with Wood.

I mean, I tried watching I'm Alan Partridge, and it was all about this cosy local radio presenter who gets laughs by saying "T'Pau" and "chocolate oranges" and "pedestrianisation". It was self-evidently atrocious.

The Horse wrote:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:
But not by someone who solicits laughs by saying "Judith Chalmers" and "thermal vest".

What's wrong with saying those things? This is what you can't explain and is therefore not self-evident at all. She's not getting laughs just by saying them without any context. They're serving a specific joke.

That Abigail's Party is good was the point. I'm Alan Partridge and Fawlty Towers are good as well. But a mentalist could criticise them based on his superficial dislike of their setting/vernacular/demographics, just as you're doing here with Wood.

I mean, I tried watching I'm Alan Partridge, and it was all about this cosy local radio presenter who gets laughs by saying "T'Pau" and "chocolate oranges" and "pedestrianisation". It was self-evidently atrocious.

There's nothing to Victoria Wood but soulcrushingly banal, millionth-hand references to specifics! That's the whole point! Strip that away and there's nothing of any worth. Strip away the Demis Roussos from Abigail's Party, or the chocolate oranges from Alan Partridge, and you've still got dark, delicious, exquisitely-written comedy, full of pathos and human truth. With Victoria Wood, all you've got is "funny old world".

Well, no. The two-pronged joke in Let's Do It - using familiar domestic references both as an unlikely vernacular for a sexual come-on, and as a more familiar way of rebuffing it - might be quite straightforward, but you can't pretend it isn't actually there. She's not just coming on stage and shouting "Battenberg cake!" as you seem to think.

Let's Do It is Wood at her mumsiest (appealing to middle-aged, conservative married couples - how dare she?) but elsewhere in her work she fits your description of Abigail and Alan spookily exactly. Pathos, human truth and exquisite writing are precisely what she offers.

Okay, boys, boys, BOYS, stop this squabbling now! Horse, you just accept that Victoria Wood is utter shit, and you, Spearmint, you just agree that Victoria Wood is completely unfunny and let's leave it at that. Now shake hands.

The 'Train Chase' in "The Wrong Trousers" has made me cry with laughter on more than one occasion. As does the sheep pyramid in "A Close Shave". This is nothing to do with accents or cosiness or however you strip it down: its just funny.

wingco: nice try. Start a thread about Victoria Wood, and see who's in what camp (no pun intended, although apparently she has a huge gay following, no idea why, or even if its true). I like her. And she writes well, especially for others.

I'm afraid this is a rare wingco error of "Roxy Music" proportions.

And Abba. He hates them too and all. And he supports Arsenal. Come to think of it, he's got form as long as your arm.

QUOTE:
bluff Lancastrian bowlers saying things like "Joost bool streht at this feller and let t'bloody pitch do t'rest"

Replace "Lancastrian" with "Yorkshire" and you're describing Ryan Sidebottom and Matthew Hoggard there.

I am indifferent to Victoria Wood and love Wallace and Gromit, by the way.

cheers egg. that makes it perfectly acceptable.