I'll keep you posted Furtho. The worst thing is she knows I love toast, so I fear it'll be quite impossible to explain myself & convince her it was someone else's expression, and not some weird perversion I dreamed up on a dark, lonely night.

I was going to post something along the lines of, suppose Hugh Hefner kept a whole lot of black folks milling around at his mansion, doing the sort of things we like black folks to do and deep down they themselves want to do, you know, grinning widely, dancing, keeping us entertained doing those funky things they do, living the high life eating chicken and water melon at Mr Hefner's pleasure. Would he get such an indulgent pass? Not quite sure if the analogy works, though. But you know what I mean.

I don't think the analogy quite works. I'm not well read in the "philosophy of porn" or whatever it is that Camille Paglia and her ilk write about but, I think there's some sort of argument to be made that the power relationship between the Playmates and their male ogglers isn't necessarily all in favor of the men as it might seem.

"If they were that carnally influential, then you'd just have porn mags like 'Slot', that just featured bum-clefts without the surrounding cheeks "

I'd be genuinely surprised if such a publication didn't exist, at least on the internet.

You do get that "toe cleavage" thing though, which is similarly bewildering.

Ginger Yellow wrote:

QUOTE:
"If they were that carnally influential, then you'd just have porn mags like 'Slot', that just featured bum-clefts without the surrounding cheeks "

I'd be genuinely surprised if such a publication didn't exist, at least on the internet.

It's a niche market...

I think every conceivable, and many inconceivable, porn niche's are served.

If I were into porn, which I'm not, I'd want something where all the women have asymetrical short haircuts like that popstar Robyn or the women in Human League, circa 1983, and wear long overcoats in the fog. Hmm, I guess that doesn't really lend itself to porn anyway.

If it hasn't already been invented, someone will have a crack at it.

As you say, Reed, the analogy isn't quite a neat fit, analogies like this never are. But I've never been convinced by this idea of the "empowerment" of women in the sex industry. There might be a little bit, for one or two, but overall, I think it's little islands of privilege in a vast sea of exploitation. Plus, I think it's an argument that is aired so often and out of proportion to its merits as to be a damaging one.

Mitch wrote:

QUOTE:
You do get that "toe cleavage" thing though, which is similarly bewildering.

What, camel toe?

No, you know, the gaps between toes. Like a close-up of someone wearing sandals.

No, toe cleavage if more like someone wearing a pair of shoes (like pumps or heels) where the toes are covered except the cleavage area where the toe joins the foot. Sandals give you toes into the deal. Whole n'other thing.

QUOTE:
As you say, Reed, the analogy isn't quite a neat fit, analogies like this never are. But I've never been convinced by this idea of the "empowerment" of women in the sex industry. There might be a little bit, for one or two, but overall, I think it's little islands of privilege in a vast sea of exploitation. Plus, I think it's an argument that is aired so often and out of proportion to its merits as to be a damaging one.

I don't disagree.

I think the difference here is the attitudes of the people being exploited.

You'd be hard pressed to find many black people who would find living like that to be much fun. They would find it both degrading and confining, to say the least.

But there seems to be no shortage of fit young women interested in exposing the form God gave them for the entertainment of men. Even after 40-plus years of NOW, Gloria Steinem, university campus womyn's clubs, and Naomi whatshernameIforgetnotnaomiklinetheotherone, Playboy still has them lining up around the block whenever they recruit for their various campus editions (I know this because I saw the line of girls at Penn State vying to get into the Girls of the Big 10), that douchebag who does Girls Gone Wild videos is still getting rich and porn is practically "mainstream" according to some observers.

It's about false consciousness, innit? I mean, I don't think you could ever convince those girls on that Playboy Bunny show that they aren't having a really good time and if somebody thinks they're having a good time, then they're having a good time, aren't they? That doesn't mean it's not degrading or that girls shouldn't be deterred from going down that road, but I don't think one can argue they aren't there "by their own choice."

It's about false consciousness, to an extent, sure, but also about class and cold hard cash. Despite the 'belle de jour' titillations currently sold us, yer upper middle classes are generally not greatly represented in this game. Certainly not in the long-term. Those college girls Reed talks about aren't likely to be in it for the long run, and aren't the mainstays of the industry.

I agree with my fellow joyless prudes Wyatt and Wingco on all this, of course. What's also interesting about the indulgence of the likes of Heffner by other men is that it locks into that general culture of bloke-on-bloke arselicking of alpha-males. When Heffner poses publicly alongside pneumatic lovelies, much of the subsequent male wanking seems not to be over the actual ladies but over Heffner himself.

I think you're confusing the majority of male wankers with gerontophile on that one, E10.