Genau.

If local Romanians are any guide, the "u" in Cluj is closer to that in Brugge than the one in Bruges (i.e., a bit less "oo").

I can only really chip in here to clarify matters in relation to a certain Celtic midfield player. If you want to get things about as wrong as wrong can be, ShunSOOky NakuhMYUruh is the way to go.

The first name is along the lines of Shnské, i.e. with the two "u" sounds being swallowed completely and a short but noticeable flourish at the end. The surname has four equally-weighted syllables and it should be noted that all of the "a" sounds are the same as each other. Something like Nakamoola is the sort of thing.

indysleaze wrote:

QUOTE:
How long before Sky Sports News start talking about Brizzol City?

It's either Brissle or Bristle, depending on what part of Bristol you come from. It's everywhere else that uses 'z', and yet for some reason you all think we talk funny.

Furtho wrote:

QUOTE:
I can only really chip in here to clarify matters in relation to a certain Celtic midfield player. If you want to get things about as wrong as wrong can be, ShunSOOky NakuhMYUruh is the way to go.

The first name is along the lines of Shnské, i.e. with the two "u" sounds being swallowed completely and a short but noticeable flourish at the end. The surname has four equally-weighted syllables and it should be noted that all of the "a" sounds are the same as each other. Something like Nakamoola is the sort of thing.

Thanks, but I think I'll just stick with calling him 'diving wee bastard'.

So will I.

ad hoc wrote:

QUOTE:
Barça is made complex by the fact that if you leave off the cedilla from the c (and lets' face it if you're using an English keyboard, who has the time to faff about with charmap), it really ought to be pronounced barka.

Except of course that the cedilla really oughtn't be left off, for precisely the reason that if it was, it'd be pronounced differently.

Rogin The Armchair Fan wrote:

QUOTE:
should either be "Bayern Munchen" (with umlauts abounding)

There's only umlaut. I agree though, I always call them Bayern München on my own site, which of course only happens when I'm mentioning Martín Demichelis anyway. There is an argument to say that 'Bayern Munich' as a whole can be taken as a translation of the club's name, of course.

And yes 'Red Star Belgrade' are in fact called Crvena Zvedzva or however it's spelled.

I've seen a few odd websites which are written in very bad English and translate the ENGLISH-LANGUAGE names of some of Argentina's clubs into Spanish, and the odd Spanish word from some of them into English. So that the superclásico is played between Río de la Plata and Mouth Juniors*, for instance. Although my favourite in this respect is the CCTV Soccer listings website, whose English-language Babelfish version renders River's name as 'River Bed', Boca as 'Mouth Young Ones' or something similar and Club de Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata (literally 'La Plata Gymnastics and Fencing Club)as 'Athletic fighting squad'.


*'Boca' is the Spanish word for 'mouth' - the club's name comes from the Buenos Aires barrio of La Boca, so called because it's located at the mouth of the River Riachuelo.

If Boca were really called "Mouth Young Ones", I wouldn't have had such trouble picking an Argentine team to support.

It's "Crvena Zvezda" in transliteration.

Now that you mention Latin America, there are a number of clubs with English-language names outside of Argentina* as well, including Sport Boys of Peru (not counting Everton of Chile and Liverpool of Uruguay).

* Someone's already mentioned Newell's Old Boys, I assume.

Sunderland: Sunlun.

I think my favorite club name is O'Higgins. It's in Chile. That and others already mentioned ("Young Boys", "Grasshopper") sum up why Americans will always tend to look at soccer as a bit...sensitive. They don't understand why you can't decide on a uniform, sorry, kit, either. Chelsea's colors are blue and white? Then why the fuck are they in yellow?

The colors thing is relatively new and driven entirely by rapacious sportswear companies (one of them very American) trying to get people to buy replica kits. Into the 80s, clubs would wear their "proper" kit for a significant majority of their matches home and away, and only switch to a "change" kit when really necessary. Each club's change kit also tended to be the same colour for many years in a row. That trend lasted even longer in Europe outside of the UK.

As to names, given the fact that my favourite North American sports team is named after baby bears, it's not only football supporters who are "sensitive".

The colors thing is relatively new and driven entirely by rapacious sportswear companies (one of them very American) trying to get people to buy replica kits.

As marketing strategies go I don't get that one. Do people feel the need to buy the change kits (in random colors) along with the proper ones, and if so why? The American dark shirt/white shirt method seems more sensible and just as likely to sell a lot of shirts. I mean, if Barca's change kit is yellow one year and slush-ee blue the next, I think I'd be far less likely to buy it since it would go out of fashion.

As to names, given the fact that my favourite North American sports team is named after baby bears, it's not only football supporters who are "sensitive".

Well, that's one. At the college level there's some more fodder, but the vast majority of pro sports nicknames are appropriately rough and tough as you know.

Edit- well, baseball can be a bit sensitive, okay. Orioles and other birdies. But it's a non-contact sport.

indysleaze wrote:

QUOTE:
ad hoc wrote:

QUOTE:
Barça is made complex by the fact that if you leave off the cedilla from the c (and lets' face it if you're using an English keyboard, who has the time to faff about with charmap), it really ought to be pronounced barka. The cedilla makes the c into an s sound...[snip]

Perhaps, but only if you pronounced it Barkelona, surely?

I think you'll find that the cedilla is only needed when the c precedes an a as in "Barca"; not when it precedes an e as in "Barcelona".

But what do I know? I never got past Day Two of Learn Spanish in Three Months.

Bruno, you've got the "sheep mentality" the kit companies are trying to encourage down cold.

Not only is one "supposed" to buy every away and "third" kit, but one is also "supposed" to buy every new version of the home kit, even if the changes are relatively minimal.

And enough British football supporters actually do this to make it worth the companies' while to try to get the rest of the world to join them (though that hasn't worked particularly well).

I've never understood the phenomenon, but then there has long been an association of UK football and "terrace fashion" that I also never really got (just like I never owned more than a few pair of sneakers at a time, generally one for each sport).

It hasn't really worked on the continent. Replica kits are big in Germany, but there is actually some street cred to old ones, which frustrates the marketing types. They generally aren't worn here except to play football and to attend matches (increasingly, but still nowhere near as much in Britain). France and Spain are much like Italy.

The only current replica kit I've ever bought was Tottenham's 1984 shadow stripe home kit, and I don't see me bucking that trend any time soon.

Surely O'Higgins are named after Bernardo, which makes them no different from the Washington Redskins or someone else named after a bloke in the US. DC Utd, San Antonio Spurs, etc etc.

(Of course, ultimately the most effeminate team name in any sport in any part of the world must surely be the New York Knicks)

Indeed, O'Higgins is in the great tradition of South American clubs named after military figures, of which the all time champ is of course Coronel Bolognesi of Peru.

Though I would argue that club names that incorporate that of their home city, which just happens to be named after a person, shouldn't count. "We" don't really do nicknames based on individuals in the US, and are much focussed on groups (like the Knickerbockers).

Nurse Duckett wrote:

QUOTE:
I think you'll find that the cedilla is only needed when the c precedes an a as in "Barca"; not when it precedes an e as in "Barcelona".

But what do I know? I never got past Day Two of Learn Spanish in Three Months.

Not that that would help you with using the cedilla anyway, because it isn't used in Spanish. You're right, though.

Other South American sides currently in their country's top flight which are named after revolutionary figures:

- About a million 'San Martín de somewhere's in Argentina
- Bolívar of Bolivia
- Various Browns, Almirante Browns etc. in Argentina
- José Gálvez (Peru)
- I suspect FBC Melgar might be as well, but I don't know who he is for certain.
- Minervén Bolívar FC (Venezuela)

And of course there's also the small matter of the Copa Libertadores...