Am I right in saying that Manchester United had a fee agreed with Villareal for Senna, and a contract all ready to be finalised before pulling it at the last minute?

Looks like they dropped a bollock there. He was outstanding again tonight, as he has been all tournament.

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Great, great performances - perhaps key in the Spanish game, although less flashy than others. If only he'd dived to head that ball tonight instead of going for the kick.


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There were a few teams said to be in for him after Villareal's run in the CL in 2006. I think Spain's early exit in Germany might have had to do with some of the cooling interest. His 06-07 season wasn`t great, either, so interest cooled.

He's 32 now, though, isn't he? Can't see a big money move for him at this stage.

EIM wrote:

QUOTE:
Am I right in saying that Manchester United had a fee agreed with Villareal for Senna, and a contract all ready to be finalised before pulling it at the last minute?

Two years ago.

As an aside, I am getting a bit sick of European national teams each having their own pet Brazilian who gets to wear the jersey after three or four years (or frequently less) of living in the country. Senna should be playing for Brazil, not Spain.

Yeah, though I was impressed that Marco (sorry, Mehmet) Aurelio had at least learnt the Turkish anthem. Better than Kazim Kazim anyway.

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Then you are against naturalisation per se?


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QUOTE:
I am getting a bit sick of European national teams each having their own pet Brazilian who gets to wear the jersey after three or four years (or frequently less) of living in the country. Senna should be playing for Brazil, not Spain.

As much as I might like to see Hargreaves re-patriated back over here, I can't agree.

Brazil didn't want him. He chose to ply his trade elsewhere and changed his citizenship to that of his new country. Same with Deco. It's not like Ailton playing for Qatar. He lives there, he's made a home there and he has citizenship there.

If he lives there and has the right to vote there, let him play.

Yeah, i heard Senna actually pulled out because Ferguson and co. were trying to weigh up their options with Hargreaves and someone else. In the end Senna just thought freak it, being left in limbo here, i'm staying. Really surprised no one else came in for him, even another Spanish club, he's been a consistently good performer in La Liga.

erwin, I'm happy for players to move here, I'm happy for the to take UK citizenship if they fulfill all the regular criteria, and getting full legal priveliges. But I don't think they should represent that country at international sport. It's just another advantage to the big rich countries. Brazil may be able to afford to lose Senna, Aurelio and Deco, but there are a lot of other countries who can't afford to lose players to naturalisation.

Plus it leads to farces like the Serie A passport forging saga, Solomon Kalou's Dutch/Ivorian tango and all sorts of other shit.

Senna was excellent though.

Incidentally, I've no problem with someone who moves to another country as a child playing for their adopted country. It's players who move as adults.

I don't get this "Brazil didn't want Senna" thing. Just because a player doesn't get called up at the age of, say, 25 doesn't mean that he can never get picked later on, and Senna is a classic example of a player who peaked very late in his career.

The fact that he was one of the best players at Euro 2008 is not particularly relevant. Even if he had endured a shit tournament and got dropped after the first couple of games, the point would still stand.

Spain, Germany, Belgium, Turkey, Portugal, Poland, Bulgaria, Albania, Croatia and Greece have all had at least one Brazilian-born player representing them in the past 15 years. Of those players, Kuranyi (who is not the only Brazil-born individual to play for Germany in the past decade) is to the best of my knowledge the only one who would also have qualified on (grand)parentage grounds. There's little, if anything, to differentiate it from what the Gulf emirates are doing when they pay Kenyans a couple of hundred grand to run for them at the Olympics.

Poland's Roger Guerreiro fiasco, where the guy had a fresh passport hurled at him a few weeks before the finals began, was merely the latest example of this shite. Guerreiro will probably join a non-Polish club side within the next two years and see his international career die a swift death, just like Emmanuel Olisadebe (debut for Poland 2000, departure from Polish club football 2001, international career effectively dead after 2002 World Cup at the age of 23).

Hieronymus of Hesselink wrote:

QUOTE:
EIM wrote:

QUOTE:
Am I right in saying that Manchester United had a fee agreed with Villareal for Senna, and a contract all ready to be finalised before pulling it at the last minute?

Two years ago.

As an aside, I am getting a bit sick of European national teams each having their own pet Brazilian who gets to wear the jersey after three or four years (or frequently less) of living in the country. Senna should be playing for Brazil, not Spain.

Absolutely. I don't care much for raw nationalism, but if a team competes at international level, it should be them and no one else.

And as good as Senna has been, it's only been as a vital cog in a functional midfield. He's not been a Maradonna-esque 'fucked without him' piece of the jigsaw.

Although the argument might run - Spain without Senna: would they have won?

I don't care much for raw nationalism, but if a team competes at international level, it should be them and no one else.


No qualification based on parentage or grandparentage either then?

My understanding was that Ferguson had doubts whether Senna could cope with the power and the pace of the English game.

A fair point really, he was excellent of course for Villarreal that season but their technical, though slow and deliberate game was the antithesis of what Man United played and of course they had made that mistake with Veron.

He's not a big player but he's like Makelele, a tough little competitor who yields nothing in strength to those around him. The thing is, like Mascherano he can actually come out and play when he wants to. He had a lovely little cameo tonight when he dribbled past a few players and then narrowly failed to turn home a headed cross from the move he set up.

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I can't see how you can separate naturalisation and subsequent qualification for employment in any given area from employment as a representative of the relevant country - in any area. Including football.


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