Apart from 2000AD, I never read comics as a kid, and I only started reading monthlies a year or two ago. So Most of my collection is in TPB form. But I still find the comic/graphic novel debate silly. It's just semantics, and not in an interesting way.

I think comics are in a similar situation to video games, in that the current generation of critics and politicians and managers and so on think that they're "just for kids" and not very sophisticated, but the generation that consumes them as adults a) considers them part of the cultural landscape, b) realises they have much more to offer, and c) is about to take over those same positions. There's going to be a huge shift in mainstream understanding of games and comics in the next decade or two. I think comics have pretty much got there in the UK. The LRB ran Spiegelman's In The Shadow Of No Towers, you regularly read reviews of Clowes or Moore works in broadsheets, and most bookshops have sizeable sections dedicated to comics. Maybe it's because there are so many great British writers, or maybe it's because we didn't have the stigma of the Comics Code hanging over us, but there seems to be much less snobbery about comics in the UK.

The thing I wasn’t happy about with For Tomorrow is the fact that it wanted to make Superman a darker, more brooding character, which he plainly isn’t. All those confessions to the New York priest reminded me of something Daredevil would do, not Superman.

Maybe that’s the reason you liked it, CV, because it is a very UnSupermanlike story. I prefer stories that really work from within the Superman mythos. I said on the other thread I liked All-Star Superman for that reason. I’d add Superman Confidential too by Darwyn Cooke, who is shaping up to be a really good writer.

By the way, I saw a great episode of the Simpsons today, where another comic shop opens over the road from the Android’s Dungeon and they get in Alan Moore, Art Speigelman and Daniel Clowes to do a signing. It’s a pure, unadulterated geek-out for comics fans everywhere.

Actually, I think a lot of the criticisms you've pointed out are valid. For Tomorrow is absolutely by no means a classic and Superman is plainly not a dark character at all. I think the reason I responded to it the way I did is that I find Superman such a boring character most of the time that I appreciate any attempt to add some new depths to him. Now, in the end, the experiment was a failure but it was a worthwhile endeavour to at least give Azzarello some breathing space on the title.

(I should point out that there have actually been a number of Superman stories that I've liked but I'm not the kind of person who'd subscribe or anything).

What I really enjoyed about For Tomorrow was the artwork (Jim Lee's, if memory serves?) Beautiful stuff, very anime-influenced which is another reason I liked it.

I'm not a graphic novels guy, but bought and quite enjoyed this after reading a number of favourable reviews. It's a pen and ink travelogue that Thompson created while touring parts of Europe and N. Africa promoting his highly-acclaimed Blankets, which I'm half-way through.

I've had Blankets on my 'to read' pile for months now. let me know what you think of it when you're finished.

I ordered Maus & Watchmen from Amazon last night, so they should turn up on Friday. I'll let you know what I think.

Yhey'll be my first graphic novel since Asterix & the Britons.

The reason that I read books rather than comics is because you just don't know where to start with comics; they're usually half-way through a story, so if you miss the first one, you're buggered.

QUOTE:
I saw a great episode of the Simpsons today

I'll be watching that in about five years...

Yes, put me down as a Channel 4 Simpsons watcher too.

However, I was round a friends the other day and he's got the whole of the new series. He said all comics fans should see this episode and it's true - more comic references and guest stars than you can shake a stick at. The only disappointment was it was only half the story - the rest of it was about Marge opening a gym.

I don't even know where to begin with this topic.

Lately, I've been reading the original Ghost in the Shell manga (in English, of course). I think I prefer the film, but it's pretty good.

I also really like Darwyn Cooke. Most recently, I read his take on The Spirit.

I'm currently big on anything drawn by Christopher Mitten. Wasteland is awesome.

I'm sort of off of Jim Lee. His art is certainly attractive and I like how he draws Gotham City in his Batman work, but to a large extent he's like a lot of those artists that hit big in the early 90s - flashy but lacking in depth. All of his male characters are muscular and dynamic. All of the women look like models/porn stars. After a while, it feels sort of, hmmm, cold, I guess.

I'd recommend V for Vendetta, Superman:Red Son (Superman is a hero of the Soviet Union and not all-American)and various works by Joe Sacco.

Chris Ware's 'Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth' is incredible. A pretty bleak work- it deals with failure, alienation, depression and delusion- but there's something indescribably beautiful about it. Poignant's an overused word, but probably the best one for this. The protagonist is a lonely middle aged bloke who imagines himself as a superhero (Super-Man, a recurring figure for Ware).

Not a lot happens for long periods, but it's not a lot that's integral to the mise-en-scene. Some of the drawings are stunning: bleak outskirtrs of rundown American Towns drawn like cigarette cards.

And they're not novels, but everyone needs a couple of American Splendor anthologies. They're nothing more than the day-to-day happenings of a sarcastic, grumpy but incredibly likeable hospital clerk called Harvey Pekar. The film (of the same name) is an absolute treat too. (If you like them then 'Our Cancer Year' and 'Our Movie Year' are 'graphic novels' by Pekar).

Heh! Weird circularity (or maybe not?).

Harvey Pekar wrote the foreword for 'Ed The Happy Clown', which I mentioned earlier. It's then transposed into 'graphic' form by the author, Chester Brown, with himself as a giggly bunny rabbit and Pekar as a psychotically irritable dwarf.

I'm about halfway through Watchmen and finding that it's good in places, but really poor in others. I also noted on IMDB that they're making a film of it. For that to work it would have to deviate a million miles from the book.

Which parts have you found really poor, out of interest?

The newsstand/marooned sailor bits. Some of the non-comic bits. And there was a section that was a bit all over the place.

The Rorshash stuff is quite good.

The main library in South Dublin has been closed for refurbishment for the last six months. It reopened yesterday so I went in for a look - they've done a fantastic job. It's bright, full of stock and lots of computers with free internet.

The graphic novels/comics section was a bit of a disappointment though - only one and a half shelves worth. They had got Maus though. I also got Old Boy - I'm not sure if the comic came before the film or not but it looks interesting.

I started reading Maus last night and am 120 pages in. It is superb - very moving, subtle and in parts funny