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Re:June SH tours - Whippings ahoy (as usual) (1 viewing) (1) Guest
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TOPIC: Re:June SH tours - Whippings ahoy (as usual)
#45744
Eggchaser
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posted 13-06-2008 11:39

 
If Balshaw is flown out I will shoot him at the airport, similar to the way the old bloke gets shot in The Godfather Part II.
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#46954
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posted 14-06-2008 18:49

 
Good -

New Zealand. (D'oh!)

Rees. Went toe to toe with McCaw and looked pretty good. He will be a great player in years to come and with a bit more support!

Haskell, but he faded after 60, unsurprisingly since he tried his guts out.

Sheridan carrying the ball.

We never gave up.

Ojo took his chances, which is what a winger's supposed to do. An intercept try is a try and he collected Care's kick very well for his second.

Care. MUST START.

OK -

Brown.

The lineout poaching.

Narraway, but he needs more power to retain ball off the back of a bad scrum, hang on and wait for the cavalry.

Worsley added a bit of grunt when he came on and seemed to be able to actually carry the ball with purpose. Payne also seemed up for it.

Poor -

Total and utter failure to capitalise on their mistakes. We force a turn over and it's static, one up crash and slow ball, or worse, we drop it and hand it straight back. The All Blacks cut us to pieces when we coughed up the ball. It's what makes them so dangerous.

Hodgson. Sadly confirmed what we suspected, although I'd love to see him behind a dominant international pack one day. Oh dear, well done for not bringing another fly half.

The scrum. Was pushed back badly. I just think Mears, for all his loose work, may be too small, especially against the monsters the New Zealanders can summon.

Palmer was awfully anonymous. About the only time I noticed him was when he was substituted and when he dropped the restart that gave NZ another scoring opportunity (which they took).Considering he's 29, he should have arrived by now.

Wigglesworth. Care showed more in 10 minutes than he managed in 70. Another in the long, long, line of average England no 9s.

The restarts were an absolute shambles. None of ours gave the chaser a chance to challenge, and we were very shaky on theirs.


BUT -


I don't think we should completely go OTT. We showed a bit of mongrel towards the end and didn't fall apart. We could easily have shipped 50 points and it looked at one point like we were going to but we stood up and in boxing terms lasted the full 12 rounds. I wouldn't take the team apart, just a few tweaks.

1 Sheridan
2 Paice
3 Stevens
4 Borthwick
5 Kay
6 Haskell
7 Rees
8 Narraway

9 Care
10 Flood

11 Strettle
12 Barkley
13 Tindall
14 Ojo
15 Brown

Replacements

16 Payne
17 Hartley
18 Kennedy
19 Tait
20 Richards
21 Noon
22 Worsley
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#47107
Fausto Ptang
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posted 14-06-2008 23:08

 
Much improved performance from us though. Final scoreline was very harsh. That last try was a double movement. Don't understand why the ref bottled it and went to the TMO. Oh yeah it was in Pretoria.
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#47690
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posted 16-06-2008 09:34

 
Great try by Williams (again). Thank heavens for people like him showing that the small guys have a place in rugby as much as the muscle bound freaks.
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#48260
Fausto Ptang
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posted 16-06-2008 17:55

 
Yeah it was a great try but there has been talk of it being the greatest try ever scored by a Welshman, which is patently ridiculous.
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#49584
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posted 18-06-2008 09:32

 
Great, now there are unspecified allegations against four unnamed English player in connection with an incident in a hotel room after the New Zealand game. Jesus H Christ, what the fuck is going on with this tour? Bad enough we're getting smashed by the All Blacks, but even an allegation of what, given the information released, is likely to be of a sexual nature, and whether true or false, is not something I can recall ever being linked to an England tour.

Smashing up hotel rooms, extreme drunkness and stupidity, but this is serious. For anything like this to even be hinted at under the reign of SCW would have seen pigs flying and moons blue.
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#52198
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posted 21-06-2008 11:43

 
SOOOOOOO......

15 - Tait - 10/10 on the Mike Brown standard must-do-better-o-meter (kicked poorly, missed a couple of tackles that led to tries, failed to counterattack at 100,000 mph beating all the New Zealand players including running round the subs bench twice before gliding in under the posts, butchered a try). Must never play again for England! OR 6/10 - As I've said before, I think his best position is 13. He is by some margin one of the few players who went on this tour who combines both speed and skill and his defence is much improved from his early days and certainly good enough for o/c. The thought of him running onto Cipriani cut out passes makes me think we may have a chance at scoring tries. His best moments came in the 13 channel and indeed our only properly worked try on this whole tour came with him standing in the 13 shirt when he fixed his man and then gave Varndell a sympathetic pass. Does anyone think either Tindall or Noon would have done anything other than lowered their heads and blundered slowly into the tackler?

14 - Ojo - 4/10 - Showed why he has a long, long way to go yet. Undoubtedly a star with space and the ball in hand, but his kicking isn't up to scratch and his defence is not good enough. But there's time for him to develop and he's one for the future.

13 - Tindall - 2/10 - Missed countless tackle, binned again, passed about once and generally looked a shadow of the big beast he was in the good old days. Injuries have caught up with him and the game has passed him by. Reserve 13 at best.

12 - Noon - 1/10 and that's generous. For someone who was picked to stiffen England's midfield, he showed absolutely nothing to support this cretinous selection. I think he touched the ball three times and charged into the nearest black shirt. He must never, ever, ever play for England again. He is symbolic of our inadequacies in the backs. The comparision with his opposite number was embarrassing to say the least. If you're picking a banger at 12, make sure he can pass and break the line.

11 - Varndell - 5/10 - Butchered one try (so, he too must be banished forever like Strettle according to some) but went OK. Perhaps if he could learn to hand off or rely on a bit more skill rather than just backing himself he would have got in. Took his actual try well and was a bit lucky to get away at the end with the penalty, but fair dos. I'd have him as a reserve to Sackey in the "finisher" wing category.


10 - Flood - 6/10 - Good cover tackle for Tait's missed tackle (DROP TAIT! HE MISSED A TACKLE!) but that cost him severely. Did well given that he's hardly played at 10 all season but if he wants to play there long term, he needs to work on his kicking from hand.

9 Care - 6.5 or 7/10 - Oh dear God, an England scrum half who can both pass and run! Must surely be the ongoing choice for a good while yet (I'll never rate Ellis till he learns to play half-decently behind a bad pack and stops meercatting instead of getting the ball away from the breakdown). In there for both tries and for a young lad on his first away tour in New Zealand picking up his first caps, he has shown immense promise.

1 - Payne - 5.5/10 - Brainless for the penalty (but he's a prop). Did well enough around the field but I swear if I see another front rower standing in the 10 channel and taking a static ball when there's a man coming from deep who's the intended recipient I'll do myself an injury).

2 - Mears - 4/10 - Lineout good, everything else just showing he's not big enough, I'm afraid. Paine and Hartley in the future.

3 - Stevens - 4/10 - He's been a shadow of himself on this tour, but I suspect that's because he's been ill served by his locks and hooker as much as anything. Mears can get away with being a bit smaller in the GP but scrummagers like the New Zealand front row are big from 1-3 and off the bench too and Stevens had his backside handed to him twice. He benefits at Bath from having a big lock like Grewcock or Short behind him, as well as the bigger Lipman rather than Rees adding weight. But still, keep him in their, get him a bit leaner and he'll be fine.

4 - Borthwick - 5/10 - Showed a bit more spite but I'm still not convinced he's hard enough for an international lock.

5 - Palmer - 4/10 - A couple of lineout steals aside, totally anonymous again. I don't think he's up to it either.

6 - Haskell - 7/10 - Big, big game. At the heart of everything good.

7 - Rees - 7/10 - Again, competed on a level par with the opposition and his removal from the field was an admission that damage limitation was the name of the game as our turnover and ruck play got worse.

8 - Narraway - 6.5/10 - He's impressed me as the matches and the games have gone on. I'm still not entirely convinced he doesn't need a few extra pounds to really step up but he's one to keep.

Subs - Barkley was OK in patches, awful hospital balls, bad place kicking but like Flood, if you're not playing week in, week out in a key position it's hard. Worsley chucked himself about but his time has gone. Croft showed some dog. Hobson had a terrible introduction but I hop he comes back. Kay OK. Paice stiffened up the scrums and should have been starting.

Conclusions

Some of these players should never play for England again.

We need to learn how to convert turnover ball into scoring chances because every time we got it the line was absoutely static with no pace. The All Blacks moved through the gears like an Aston Martin.

Wells and Ford (Ford especially) have to go.
Simply have to.

We have some promising young players both here and in the A team and should now stick with them and trust them to come through rather than picking the same old trundlers.

I never want to see England going for damage limitation again. It's an admission of failure before you've started.

We need to find at least one lock who eats babies for fun.
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#52884
Fausto Ptang
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posted 22-06-2008 17:51

 
How many of the men who played for England yesterday do you think will be picked for the Lions next year?
How many do you think should be picked?
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#53309
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posted 23-06-2008 11:07

 
Haskell, Care (if he continues his good start), Rees, Tait (McGheechan knows a talent and how to use it), Stevens (give him some decent support and he's a decent player), that's about it. And I wouldn't necessariy pick them to start, but I would have them in the touring party.
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