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I want much more coffee in half the liquid. Stronger and much more concentrated than usual. Even, make it like you would a double, but produce less liquid than you normally would for a single. I don't want the pissy dribble at the end."

Sally: I'd like the chef salad please with the oil and vinegar on the side and the apple pie a la mode.

Waitress: Chef and apple a la mode.

Sally: But I'd like the pie heated and I don't want the ice cream on top I want it on the side and I'd like strawberry instead of vanilla if you have it if not then no ice cream just whipped cream but only if it's real if it's out of a can then nothing.

Waitress: Not even the pie?

Sally: No, just the pie, but then not heated.

You just don't understand caffe culture . . .

if they're going to charge me three times what it ought to cost, the least they can do is try to make it half-way drinkable, surely?

I suppose at Caffe Neros they probably clean the machine sometimes, which will help. I tried and tried and tried to get something halfway drinkable at the coffee chain shop I worked in, but never got close to what came out of my flatmate's stove-top thingy.

All the ice rinks I've been to in Finland have a licensed bar. If I ever have a child that plays hockey, I'm not messing about with coffee (not without a bit of jaloviina or something, anyway).

I know this is re-railing the thread away from coffee culture, but I'm only just climbing on this donkey, so here goes.

Tesco. I know they were mentioned upthread, but in my view were not vilified enough, so here we go again.

I have dealt with supermarkets, some global brands, some UK-centric, for the last few years of my career (that wasn't the plan at 21, but still...)

I can safely say the Tesco's "screw the supplier" policies have done immeasurable harm. Not that everything was fine and dandy before Tesco decided to hurtle from 4th to 1st in the Supermarche Championnat in the 90s, but they have blazed a trail that other chains have had to follow, or perish.

I'm not going to go into hardcore supply chain theory here - it would bore even me - but to boil it down to an essence an efficient and profitable supply chain requires co-operation and as much stability as the changing markets can muster.

Along come Tesco and ramraid every supplier on terms, sending a good few out of business and the rest running scared. For two, three years they make spectacular gains in the marketplace until the other supermarkets (and yes even Asda/Walmart dragged their feet in the UK) matched their business practices.

Suppliers are funding Tesco's global expansion plans, which are going very well in Europe but suffering a little in the US. Good.

It's just business, I know, and shades of dark grey, but this lot are black.

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"If they're going to charge me three times what it ought to cost, the least they can do is try to make it half-way drinkable, surely?"

Demanding vaule for the money! The nerve! Who do you think you are?

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All the ice rinks I've been to in Finland have a licensed bar. If I ever have a child that plays hockey, I'm not messing about with coffee (not without a bit of jaloviina or something, anyway).

Most youth hockey events are early in the morning (because the ice time is cheapest), and in our country it's considered bad form to consume alcohol before noon (unless it's a mamosa or bloody mary at brunch) I don't know why, it just is. If this is not the case in your country, well that's just another thing you've got over us, I suppose.

Also, most ice rinks are either exposed to the elements or kept very cold, so people want something warm.

Youth hockey rinks also tend not to have bars (at least in New York/New Jersey). And even if they did, they wouldn't be open at 6 am.

That said, it was not unknown for some adults to "correct" their Dunkin' Donuts coffee with something from a hip flask. We generally hoped that they weren't the ones driving their kid back home after the game.

It is generally frowned upon here too Reed, but if the other parents think I'm always drunk I should avoid the long drives to Kainuu.

I don't really know why my local rink has a bar. If they expect a bigger crowd than 200 or so, they move the game to Hakametsä 2, and licences are pretty darn expensive in this country. I can't help but compare it to the 4,000 capacity football ground where they're not allowed to sell beer.

I think some bigger rinks/recreation facilities in the US and Canada have bars. At least, I've heard of such things. Probably some nuance in the licensing law that lets them claim to be a "club" or somesuch.

I think alcohol in coffee is great. I should drink that more often.

M&S's greatest branding idea, food wise, was skipping labels and making the jars see-through. Things like artichokes in oil, Kalamata olives or pear halves just look so much classier and tastier when you can see them through a clear container.

They have these olives at m&s that are stuffed with sundried tomatoes. They are soooo gorgeous they're worth the extortionate price.

Ick. I hate olives.

I vote M&S.

The final word on the subject of Tim Horton's, from one of Canada's best and grouchiest columnists.

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Was Tim Horton's the place that hired back the waitress after firing her for giving away a donut hole to a kid?

Ok, let's try that again.

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I doubt anyone can locate the moment Hortons stopped being a mall doughnut shop serving, at best, indifferent coffee and transmuted into a hallowed piece of Canadiana, but that it arrived no one can doubt. Outside of Hockey Night in Canada, and - with reverence - Don Cherry, there are few institutions or companies that have blended into the character of the nation as the Tim Hortons.

I became a hostage to Boston cream doughnuts so long ago the year is lost in gooey memory. And now in every town and city across the country, despite the advances of the upscale chains, the aggressive yuppie haunts of Starbucks Corp., the gentrified caffeine oases of Timothy's and Second Cup, Tim Hortons remains the venue of choice for all everyday Canadians. You knew the Canadian effort in Afghanistan had registered with the great Canadian public when Tim Hortons opened in Kandahar. Hortons is not the red Maple Leaf, but it has brewed and baked its way into being an essential piece of Canadiana.

Up to now, anyway. I think Tim Hortons is drifting out of its special status. This has nothing to do with the fury of recent weeks over the woman fired for giving away a Timbit to a crying infant - though that incident may be a signal of how the brand has strayed. Nor has it to do, in my judgment, with the consideration that Tim Hortons was, until recently, owned by the American chain Wendy's.

No, the change is more subtle and has crept in by a kind of osmosis.

Perhaps the invisible moment was the first time a Canadian went to a Tims not for itself, but more because it wasn't a Starbucks. A reverse-preference moment. Perhaps it came when Tim Hortons became conscious that it really wasn't just selling cheap coffee and doughnuts. (That, incidentally, was more than a while ago. Just one old-fashioned plain is 80 cents now; years back you could buy the whole front counter display case of doughnuts for about five bucks.) Perhaps it was the moment when they started self-consciously to see themselves as a symbol.

Something has leaked out of the enterprise. Did the coffee change? Are the doughnuts still as fresh as once they so boasted they were? I'm not sure what it was or is, but, for me anyway, the zest has gone out of the transaction between chain and customer. Their "roll up the rim" is a farcical gimmick. The signature phrases - "double-double" being the most familiar - gall more than they please. Their ridiculous lineups - in some places it takes longer to get a coffee than to pick up a licence at motor vehicle registration - have lost the kind of self-congratulatory charm they had some time back. People used to smile at each other for the silly indulgence of lining up for a not-very-good cup of coffee. They don't smile as much any more. They mutter.

Most of all, people don't feel the loyalty they once did. It is no longer a traitorous act to wander into Second Cup, though, it must be noted, treading into Starbucks is still a barista too far. All in all, I think Timmy's - another unfortunate coinage - is past its best-by date. The romance has wilted. The coffee has cooled. It had its acme moment as a badge of this great white north, but unless something in the chemistry between coffee and customer changes, real soon, the days of Tim Hortons as an essential Canadian experience are dwindling and few.

Yes, Inca, the free donut incident a couple of weeks ago was a Timmy's thing. They hired her back within hours, though.