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Re:Going Down? (1 viewing) (1) Guest
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TOPIC: Re:Going Down?
#22387
SamLKelly
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posted 05-05-2008 20:10

 
AG - Both good questions. To answer:

1) Yes. A more accurate way of putting would be 'any seasons out of the last three that were spent in the team's current division'.

2) Promotion is worked out from the league table over the whole season, just the same as in any European league. As from the current season, the divisions below the top flight in Argentina have moved to a single season-long championship - it's now only the Primera A which has Apertura and Clausura still (and that probably won't be for more than a couple more years).

Previous to this season, it was the winner of the Apertura and the winner of the Clausura (assuming the same team didn't win both) who got automatic promotion, then a combined league table was used for the playoff places.

As of the now, the top two at the end of the single season-long table will go straight up (to replace the 19th and 20th teams in the Primera A Promedio) and 3rd and 4th will play, respectively, 18th and 17th from the division above in a two-legged playoff known as the Promoción. If the aggregate scores are level, the team in the higher division stay up.

The Promedio is used to decide relegation, as far as I'm aware, only in the top flight. If it were used in the lower leagues as well it would be theoretically possible, given a bad enough couple of seasons followed by a sharp enough improvement, for a team to win promotion and be relegated in the same season. As it is, it's possible for a side to win a short championship in Primera A and be relegated in the same season (though it's not yet happened).
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#25938
ursus arctos
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posted 12-05-2008 10:18

 
It's almost over, folks:

Italy (1 weeks left; three to go down):

Catania 36
Parma 34
Empoli 33
Livorno 30

Reggina win another six pointer against Empoli and are safe, as are Torino, who won at Livorno (sending them down for sure). Catania were safe for most of yesterday until Del Piero pulled a late goal back for Juventus to get a draw.

Next Sunday promises to be the maddest in recent Serie A history, as Inter visit Parma, while Roma are at Catania. If Roma get a better result than Inter, they win the scudetto after having trailed by 11 points; Parma need to win to have any chance of staying up. Empoli play Livorno at home and can still save themselves if they win and Catania lose, as they have better head to head record.

Spain: (1 week left; three to go down):

Valladolid 44
Recreativo Huelva 43
Osasuna 43
Zaragoza 42
Murcia 30
Levante 26

Murcia and Levante are down. Any of the four teams left in the final dogfight can assure themselves of safety by winning their final match. On the last day, Huelva go to Valladolid; Zaragoza are at Mallorca and Osasuna at Santander.

Germany: (1 weeks left; three to go down):

Bielefeld 33
Nuremberg 31
Duisburg 29
Rostock 27

Duisburg and Rostock make an immediate return to the 2. Liga. Cottbus save themselves by beating fifth place HSV (and helping to set up a mad finish to the race for the UEFA Cup places, as Leverkusen, HSV, Wolfsburg and Stuttgart are all on equal points). On the last day, Bielefeld are away to Stuttgart, while Nuremberg are home to Schalke.

France: (1 week left; three to go down):

PSG 40
Toulouse 39
Lens 39
Strasbourg 35
Metz 21

As detailed on the France Football thread, things looked good for the PSG Schadenfreude brigade at half-time. PSG were trailing at home to St. Etienne and Toulouse were winning, while Lens were only one goal down at Lille. Everything went pear-shaped in the second half, though, as PSG got one back for a draw, Toulouse gave up two to Rennes to lose, and Lens lost to Lille. Strasbourg join Metz in Ligue 2. On the last day, PSG are away to Sochaux knowing that a win will ensure safety. They may not even need that much, however, as Lens have to play Bordeaux, who still have a shot at the title, at the Bollaert. Toulouse play Valenciennes at home.
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#25952
ad hoc
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posted 12-05-2008 10:35

 
In Romania the relegated clubs were U Cluj, UTA Arad (Dalliance has a bit of a thing for them if I recall), Dacia Mioveni, and Ceahlaul Piatra Neamt.

U Cluj will start the next season with -2 points for finishing below the 25 point threshold. This is a measure implemented to stop what is referred to here as "blat" (ie teams throwing matches when they have nothing to play for). Any team getting relegated with fewer than 25 points (in an 18 team league) get penalised for the season after.

One for the EPL to consider, so that chancers like Derby get penalised for their patheticness? I reckon there it ought to be
<35 points : -2
<30 : -4
<25 : -6
<20 : -10
<15 : - 15

But that is with next season partly in mind, so maybe a bit harsh.
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#25990
ursus arctos
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posted 12-05-2008 11:46

 
That's an extremely interesting system, which I was previously unaware of and think is unique to Romania.
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#25999
ad hoc
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posted 12-05-2008 11:56

 
It's new this year. Not sure if they'll carry on with it, and it seems a bit one sided since there are clubs in the middle which are just as guilty of "blat", but who, at present, are not/cannot be punished.
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#26000
EIM
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posted 12-05-2008 11:56

 
Can I just pop in here and give massive props to Torino for stayinbg up? Well done boys.
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#26009
ursus arctos
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posted 12-05-2008 12:02

 


With you all the way EIM, and very much hope that they celebrate long and hard (Fiorentina play them on the last day).
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#26032
EIM
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posted 12-05-2008 12:23

 
And as a plus, you should be able to see an FC United flag flying from the Curva Maratona next season. Which will probably get a little more noticed than the Torino one strung up at the Cemetery End at Gigg Lane.
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#29629
ursus arctos
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posted 19-05-2008 09:48

 
More or less real-time updates on the last day in each of Italy, France, Spain and Germany are on the respective threads, but just for completeness here is the final list of relegated clubs:

Italy: Empoli, Parma, Livorno
Spain: Zaragoza, Murcia, Levante
Germany: Nuremberg, Duisburg, Rostock
France: Lens, Strasbourg, Metz

Among this year's casualties are two former winners of European competitions (Parma and Zaragoza), along with a losing finalist (Birmingham City).
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Last Edit: 19-05-2008 12:00 By ursus arctos. Reason: confusion a la francaise
 
#37507
SamLKelly
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posted 01-06-2008 03:34

 
San Martín de San Juan are relegated in Argentina, so there'll only be one team with that name in Primera A next season (San Martín de Tucumán having been promoted on Thursday).

Olimpo de Bahía Blanca will almost certainly follow them tomorrow, and Racing drew the derby with Independiente today - it's going to be tricky for them to avoid the playoffs. I'll update properly with the relevant bit of the Promedio table when the weekend's matches are over.
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#37510
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posted 01-06-2008 05:38

 
Sam: Isn't the point of the averaging to ensure that a team like Racing never goes down? How hopeless must they be if they manage it?
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#38333
SamLKelly
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posted 03-06-2008 02:42

 
Jefe, yes it is, and trust me, they're very useless. They've also been astonishingly unlucky in a lot of matches this season - with fair refereeing they'd definitely have been safe long ago.

And it's going a bit bonkers right now. No time for a proper update at this moment in time - I need to go to sleep. But Olimpo, who have been useless for months and rock-bottom of the Promedio for virtually the entire season, have only gone and won two in a row and lifted themselves from bottom, to 17th, and within touching distance of Colón in 16th. The table's here, and I'll try and explain the permutations tomorrow if I get a quiet period in the office. The remaining fixtures are making this season absolutely insane...
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#38502
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posted 03-06-2008 12:28

 
Lens won the Ligue 1 title about ten years ago by goal difference over FC Metz - how fortunes change...
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#41675
SamLKelly
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posted 08-06-2008 15:17

 
Halfway through the penultimate round of matches in Argentina, we have yet another twist.

Racing somehow managed to actually win a match on Saturday afternoon, 1-0 against Huracán. This really does make things tighter than a nun's proverbial.

The win means Racing can't be relegated automatically, and - this really did seem nearly impossible a few short weeks ago - means they've got a chance to avoid even the relegation playoffs.

16th place is safe. 17th and 18th go into a playoff against 3rd and 4th of the division below. 19th and 20th go directly to Primera B Nacional.

Pos. Team --- pld. -- pts. --- ppg

16. Colón --- 112 --- 133 --- 1.188
------------------------------------
17. Racing -- 113 --- 133 --- 1.177
18. Olimpo -- 36 ---- 42 ---- 1.167
------------------------------------
19. Gmnsa J. -113 --- 128 --- 1.133
20. San Mtín -37 ---- 35 ---- 0.946 R

San Martín are relegated already. Racing's win means they're guaranteed at least a playoff place and thus Gimnasia de Jujuy need Olimpo to drop points in their two matches to come, and themselves to win their one remaining match. Racing are hoping that both Colón and Olimpo drop points in their matches - both sides have two left.

Now here's where it gets tasty.

One of Colón's matches in hand over Racing is today. It's away to Estudiantes, who are currently in second place, fighting for the title.

One of Olimpo's matches in hand is also today. It's away to River, who are currently in first place... fighting for the title.

(If Estudiantes beat Colón this afternoon, they'll leave Colón and Racing on exactly the same points-per-game average going into the last day. Remember this because we'll come back to it after the next paragraph.)

Olimpo's final match? At home... to Estudiantes. Who if they beat Colón today will be taking the title race right to the final weekend.

And Racing's final match, in two weeks' time? It's away... to Colón. So, Colón's final fixture of the season? Yep, you're reading this correctly. At home. Against Racing.

In other words, if Colón fail to beat Estudiantes today, the last weekend will feature one match in which the final relegation playoff place will be decided by a head-to-head. If Estudiantes and River match each other's results today (or if Estudiantes win and River don't), the title race goes to the wire, and it will also affect the relegation battle in a huge way.

If two sides finish exactly level in the Promedio, there'll be a one-match 'final' to decide who finishes in which position.

I'd like to see Sky Sports rearrange the Premier League fixtures and come up with that end-of-season finale...
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Last Edit: 08-06-2008 15:20 By SamLKelly.
 
#47577
Ant van Oviedo
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posted 15-06-2008 23:28

 
It was a really tight thing at the bottom of the Segunda División in Spain, but in the end Racing de Ferrol and Cádiz will join already-relegated Granada 74 and Poli Ejido in Segunda B next year.

Alaves came from behind to beat Celta 3-2 in Vigo to seal their spectacular escape - last week, losing 2-1 in the 93rd minute, they were dead and buried...two injury time goals there, and today's heroics got the job done for them.

Cádiz were one up against Hércules in Alicante, but conceded an equaliser which condemned them. Yet it might have all been so different for them, because amazingly they were awarded a penalty out of nothing in the - wait for it - 95th minute!! Sadly for them, Abraham Paz could only hit the post with it, and Cádiz were doomed.
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